|
 |
Spanish in Barcelona | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6888 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes  Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 41 of 57 14 November 2006 at 10:33am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Actually, if an Urdu speaker who was not an EU national were to move to the Netherlands, he or she *would* have to learn Dutch as it's part of the immigration process now. In fact, the vast majority of people wishing to move to the Netherlands would now have to take a culture and language exam prior to being allowed to move here. So in this case, your point is not entirely accurate and the myth that all Dutch can speak fluent English is simply that...a myth. Yes, the vast majority of people speak English but only a small fraction of these people speak it fluently. I appreciate the Dutch people's efforts to speak English when my Dutch is failing me but I've come across a lot of people in the last few days who can barely string a complete sentence together. And please drop the 'why learn a language that isn't English' line. It's tiresome and a bit pointless to bring up in a LANGUAGES (note the plural form) forum. People can study whatever they want, be it Urdu or Byzantine pottery. The world would be a really dull place if we all stuck to the same interests. :) I personally find it fascinating to find out about people taking the effort to learn a really obscure language as I believe it takes a great deal of time and committment to achieve that. For some reason, fluency in Spanish or French doesn't attract my interest as much as fluency in, say, Nepalese or Uzbek. These are languages which carry just as much cultural baggage as English, French or German and I find it impressive that someone can learn these languages with so very few resources at hand. It might not be entirely useful in day-to-day life but I still find it impressive and awe-inspiring. And what's this about L69? How many people honestly tackle 68 foreign languages? What's wrong with learning something obscure as your sole foreign language if that's what really interests you? I honestly don't understand the way you think and find it somewhat hypocritical given the fairly long list of languages you seem to have studied. It makes me wonder why you're lecturing the rest of us for wanting to learn a couple of foreign languages. I don't think fluency in 68 languages is a majority goal here (I personally don't have the time or dedication for so many!).
Funny that...the rest of us haven't had a single problem with the way this forum is run or the things we discuss. We might not be experts in language acquisition but I'm still glad I found a forum full of genuinely passionate and friendly people. I visit a good many language-related forums and this is by far the one I visit the most. I'm sorry we haven't lived up to your expectations.
We don't all claim to be experts in pragmatics and learning techniques. I learn languages for the sheer enjoyment of it and find linguistics as a discipline to be painfully dull. I couldn't care less about IPA or phonology or syntax. If I was, I would have studied linguistics at university or read up more on the subject. I'm merely after expanding my cultural horizons and meeting people from different backgrounds. If you're merely after the linguistic benefits or care about nothing but language acquisition methods, then that's your prerogative. But please stop lecturing us on how we should approach languages as I'm pretty sure you are not the sole expert on the matter. :) Note to Administrator - Is it possible to split this topic? I'm enjoying this particular discussion but feels it's way off-topic from the original thread. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7013 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 42 of 57 14 November 2006 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Very good points, Kelly. Are you thinking of assuming moderator status? ;-)
P.S. ;-) = just joking 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6766 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 43 of 57 14 November 2006 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Terrific post by Lady Skywalker, and there's not much to add. :)
Many of Aldo's criticisms of language learning are beside the point, or blown out of proportion. Let's take his Indians-learning-Dutch example: it is not the case that 98% of Dutch know English. According to the EU's latest language survey (downloadable here), 60% of Dutch say they know enough to have a conversation. However, that doesn't mean those 60% are fluent; I recently saw another survey that actually tested the foreign language skills of Dutch people an found them to be somewhat worse than what they claimed. Also, Aldo implies that Urdu speakers can't learn Dutch to a high level of proficiency, or that they already know English well. Neither of those propositions are necessarily true. An Indian who doesn't speak English is much better off learning Dutch to speak to Dutchmen. Thirdly, Aldo implies that having casual conversations is the only reason for learning Dutch, so Urdu speakers should give up and (try to) speak English with (60% or fewer of) the Dutchmen they meet. Clearly this is disingenuous, overlooking the other reasons for learning Dutch — cultural interest, scholarly interest, romantic interest, moving to Holland or Belgium, reading Dutch literature, the list goes on. Perhaps he wishes to imply that these are poor reasons, and for him that may be true, but many of us learn languages for precisely such reasons. (There's no need at all to point out that Dutch will not be L69 for anyone who studies it. L3 would have been a better example.) Okay, so the Dutch example was probably a lousy one anyway, but it was a pillar of his argument I wanted to take a crack at. If he's saying that many Dutch nationals speak some English and that one's existing English skills might be sufficient, I'm sure that's true, but also beside the point. If he's saying that Dutch is less useful than other languages, well, less useful to whom? Less useful to him, obviously, and to me as well; but not less useful to Kelly, or to my cousin who lived in Antwerp, or to a Pakistani who wants to learn gemcutting in Amsterdam. Nevertheless, since this forum is about learning languages, I would very much like to see Aldo contribute his own knowledge and experiences in a positive manner. No doubt he has more interesting things to teach us than his reasons for not learning languages. I would very much like to hear some of his learning methods and compare them to my own. Edited by Captain Haddock on 14 November 2006 at 10:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6888 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 44 of 57 15 November 2006 at 4:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think I am a bit quick-tempered to be a moderator. I tend to type before I think. ;) Captain Haddock has brought up some very good points, some of which can be applied to any language that's not considered 'mainstream'. Tibetan, for example, would be 'useless' to the vast majority of us but not to someone working with Tibetan refugees in north India or to someone writing a thesis on Tibetan Buddhism. Khmer is another language accused of being 'geo-locked' but learning it would come in handy for an NGO in Cambodia. It all depends on the circumstance, not that people should have to have a solid and practical reason for learning a specific language.
As would I. Given Aldo's long list of languages he's studied, I'm sure he would be able to give a few insights as to how he went about learning some of the less-commonly learnt languages on his list (eg. Khmer and Cherokee). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7013 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 45 of 57 15 November 2006 at 6:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I third that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| aldo Triglot Groupie Thailand Joined 6594 days ago 50 posts - 52 votes Speaks: English*, French, SpanishB1 Studies: Italian, German, Dutch, Mandarin, Thai, Khmer, Malay | Message 46 of 57 17 November 2006 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
YOu proved nothing other than you are incapablee of seeing the writing on the wall--too use a gnomic saying from USA English. (And too bad if there are typos here--I am using a Thai keybooard--which none of you are doing.)
So what the hell? Where are your CLick Stop Language Skills? Get real? You people live in a small world away from reality. YOu want it that way and you argue non sequiturs. To show you about your pathetic specious skills I will use Jerry SPence: Some leaves on a tree are not green, some are brown or yellow--but to forecast or use that all leaves or the general nature of leaves is yellow or brown is jsut plain wrong. You never prove anything trying to argue exceptions--and that is what you failed logic students try to do. Maybe if some of you had an education beyond wishes and deisres you would be able to keep up. Look, I have studied more langagues that most all of you. I have gone to the hardest languages school on the planet--how many of you have? I have 4 University degrees. I live in Asia--I talk from reality. But you don't want to listen. Go down with the Hindenberg. Edited by aldo on 17 November 2006 at 6:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sir Nigel Senior Member United States Joined 7102 days ago 1126 posts - 1102 votes 2 sounds | Message 47 of 57 17 November 2006 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
If I were a moderator I'd have deleted at least a few posts already. I've been enjoying the REAL discussion about Castilian in Barcelona. Can we please get back on topic so this doesn't have to be another locked thread?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| rafaelrbp Pentaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 7011 days ago 181 posts - 201 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Spanish, English, French, Italian Studies: German | Message 48 of 57 17 November 2006 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
And you were still unable to contribute to this forum. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
