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Portuguese in Portugal for my son | ||
Tags: Portugal | Portuguese | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| crackpot Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6299 days ago 144 posts - 178 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 1 of 9 16 March 2015 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hello,
I want to take my son to Portugal so that he can learn Portuguese. I am hoping he can do it in 6 months. A few questions: 1. Is 6 months enough? (I'm just starting to learn some Portuguese and it looks a bit complicated for spelling and pronunciation.) 2. Where would be a good location? I'm looking for a place away from English-speaking expats (if possible) and where the inhabitants speak with more of a standard accent. 3. Is there a region in Portugal with an accent a bit closer to Brazilian Portuguese? Background information: My son is nine years old. He is a native English speaker. He speaks French and Spanish to about 95% of a native speaker his age. He was in French immersion in Canada for kindergarten and grade one. He spent grades 2 and 3 in a small town in Burgundy, France and is now completing grade 4 in Castilla y Leon in Spain. Thanks in advance 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 5057 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 2 of 9 16 March 2015 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
If he speaks Spanish at near-native-9-year-old level, 6 months should be fine. Portuguese spelling is actually pretty easy, not quite as regular as Spanish but nearly so, and much easier than English or French spelling. Portuguese is extremely similar to Spanish, and he'll likely be able to read from day 1 and understand most of what people say to him pretty quickly. Speaking is more of a challenge, and it's hard to predict what will happen there. If he didn't already speak a Romance language, 6 months would of course not be enough. In that case I would've recommended studying for a year before going.
Most Portuguese don't speak English well, so even if he doesn't look like a local, people other than English- speaking expats will expect him to speak Portuguese anywhere. If you really want to avoid expats, you might avoid Lisbon, but I believe it depends more on his attitude and his immediate environment rather than the amount of expats in the city as a whole. Greater Lisbon and Greater Porto are really the only two major urban areas. Anywhere else will be a provincial town that non-Portuguese have never heard of, which may be uniquely interesting if that's what you're looking for.
Not really. European Portuguese is really, really different from Brazilian Portuguese. If he learns European Portuguese and then travels to Brazil, they will understand him, but there's really no neutral accent that sounds "normal" on both sides. The closest thing would be an African accent, like in Angola or Mozambique, which tend to be based on European Portuguese, but have the enunciated vowels characteristic of Brazilian. In general I would choose standard/neutral/Lisbon/radio Portuguese, since that's what Brazilians are most likely to be used to hearing (although, in general, we are NOT THAT used to hearing it! Certainly less so than Americans are to hearing British!) Good luck! Edited by robarb on 16 March 2015 at 8:09pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5260 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 3 of 9 16 March 2015 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I would add to robarb's advice by advising to avoid the coastal areas of the Algarve of southern Portugal in order to minimize contact with expats. The Algarve coast is a very popular British and Northern European holiday destination. Edited by iguanamon on 16 March 2015 at 8:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4288 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 4 of 9 17 March 2015 at 5:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Having lived in the UK, I can say with certainty that the numerous direct flights to
Faro would make me want to avoid any of that area as it is filled with Anglophones. The Algarve is basically like the Portuguese version of the Costa del Sol, and Faro like Portugal's version of Torremolinos and Málaga. I do not believe that Lisbon should be avoided, of course it is a tourist centre, but I doubt that everyone goes to a tourist attraction every day of their life if they live in a touristic city, which leads to using English. Not everyone who lives in Paris goes past the Eiffel Tower everyday, much less talks to tourist guides. I would judge Portugal's English skills as much better than all Hispanophone countries', and that of France's. However, I would judge it as not so high anyway. I see no reason how can this be a prblem. Given that Spanish and French is one of the languages that is known, pretending to be from Spain or France is enough to guarantee a conversation in Portuguese. I have never heard of accents in Portugal in any region close to Brazilian. Not only the accent is difference, the grammatical differences are numerous too. It would be like asking if there is anywhere in Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, Memphis, or Los Angeles have a region that has an accent resembling that of Leeds, Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff, or Birmingham. Edited by 1e4e6 on 17 March 2015 at 6:12am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| crackpot Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6299 days ago 144 posts - 178 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 5 of 9 24 March 2015 at 8:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks everyone. Great answers. We've been delving a bit further into Portuguese and it looks easier than I'd
initially thought. My son is completely convinced he can do it...and that's half the battle. In the past we've had a problem with some kids trying out there English on him but I told him to always reply in Spanish and after a few days they all stopped using English with him. This is what I'm afraid of if we go to a touristy locale. I noticed in France that almost no one spoke English in our small town but in the tourist areas many people did so to accomodate the tourists there. Robarb hit the nail on the head regarding accents. My question could have been better, but what I was looking for was an accent that's as neutral as possible so as to be better understood in Brazil should he decide to go there one day. I'm still debating the location. I almost went insane from boredom in smalltown France so I promised myself never again. Maybe Porto as I've read the rents are cheaper than Lisbon, it's big enough and it's beautiful. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6059 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 6 of 9 25 March 2015 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Just noticed this post and your questions. Here's my take on them:
a) From an academic point of view, the accent that is considered as standard is the one used by people in the coastal region stretching from Lisbon to Coimbra. Nowadays we could add most of the Ribatejo region and part of the Setúbal peninsula to that. The people from Coimbra brag about the purity of their accent, since they have the University and all, but mainly because, when you live in a city of about 60k inhabitants, you need something to brag about, apart from very raucous student traditions. I can guarantee you that nowadays it's getting more difficult to pinpoint accents, due to the effects of TV and general mobility. b) We have around 100k Brazilians living in Portugal, mostly in Lisbon and the surrounding zone; therefore, you're bound to meet people with a Brazilian accent... because they hail from there. Apart from that, there's no one with such an accent. c) Most barbarians (in the "foreign" sense of the word) live in Lisbon or the Algarve. The ones of British persuasion live mostly in the Algarve and the Cascais-Estoril regions. There are a few German and Dutch families living in the Alentejo, where they went to escape the bustle of the big cities (hippie-style), but not many. d) Porto might be a good bet, albeit with an accent. They are very nice people, in spite of a tendence towards a big rivalry with Lisbon. Of course, when you meet them, it only takes one big meal to dissipate all differences. e) I wish you luck and a nice stay in Portugal. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| AlexMoby Diglot Newbie FranceRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4310 days ago 13 posts - 15 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch | Message 7 of 9 31 March 2015 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I am in Portugal currently for Erasmus so I hope that my answers can help you. 1) It will depend on various factors. Your son seems to already master both French and Spanish so it will be certainly easier for him to learn Portuguese. However, if it's certainly good to be with other expats (students or workers) for social purposes, it can affect his learning process. He won't progress fastly with he uses the language only within the administration or when he is in contact with shop assitants, co- workers etc... 2- Minho seems to a good region. Loads of beautiful places and not a great amount of English speakers if they are not tourists. The inhabitants easily switches to English but if the spoken Portuguese of the foreigners is good enough to handle a conversation. 3-I have heard that the Alentejo accent is the closest to the Brazilian accent but I ma not sure at all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4288 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 8 of 9 01 April 2015 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I must agree with Luso that there is no region that sounds like Brazilian accent except
the places where actual Brazilians live, due to emigration and Lusophone-world exchange. It is like how some say that the Boston (the one in Massachusetts, not Lincolnshire) accent is the most similar to any type of UK accent, but I can assure that if a Bostonian went to the UK and started speaking, they would immediately be called American. Note that Brazilian Portuguese not only has different accent, but also different grammar in some instances, as well as different vocabulary. Edited by 1e4e6 on 01 April 2015 at 12:18am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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