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Spanish: A wolf in sheep’s clothing | ||
Tags: Difficulty | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 25 of 73 08 June 2010 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The strange thing is that María Moliner defines 'populación' simply as "población", while the definition in the DRAE
only matches the first of the 5 meanings of "población". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5345 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 26 of 73 08 June 2010 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, that goes to show that learning the nuances and correct usage of a language is never "easy". 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 27 of 73 09 June 2010 at 12:58am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, that's of course right, but the reason I think it's strange is that Moliner based her dictionary on the DRAE and deliberately tried to improve the definitions and make a more useful dictionary. There's a possibility that the Academy has changed their definition of populación since the 1956 edition, or that Moliner simply didn't agree. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 28 of 73 09 June 2010 at 1:07am | IP Logged | |||||
I bought María Moliner dictionary on CD-ROM several years ago on the recommendation of a Spaniard, who had told me that it was her father's favorite dictionary. I found it to be very helpful, especially for the kind of situations when you are reading a novel and get stuck on some idiomatic phrase. Using it as my main Spanish dictionary, I noticed over time that its definitions can at times get convoluted, and that it can occasionally hiccup on the type of scholarly minutiae you've been discussing here. When in doubt, I cross-checked MM against DRAE and/or the Espasa Calpe monolingual dictionary, which can be accessed online at wordreference.com as "Diccionario Español (Spanish monolingual)". The latter is a mid-size dictionary, but it has simple definitions, whereas DRAE is full-size and scholarly, but can be somewhat dry. Edited by frenkeld on 09 June 2010 at 4:33pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 29 of 73 09 June 2010 at 1:19am | IP Logged | |||||
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I checked "populación" in the 1956 DRAE (you can access their old dictionaries at www.rae.es via "Nuevo tesoro lexicográfico de la lengua española"). It is listed as "Población, I.a acep."
I didn't check any of the earlier dictionaries, but things haven't changed since 1956. Edited by frenkeld on 09 June 2010 at 5:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| crafedog Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5818 days ago 166 posts - 337 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Korean, Tok Pisin, French | Message 30 of 73 09 June 2010 at 6:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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Honestly I felt the same way about Spanish when I got up to an upper-intermediate level I felt like I was hitting a brick wall. It seems like old English to me at times ("To whom do you speak?"). I eventually caught up to the speed of the language by watching TV shows in Spanish and listening to Spanish hip-hop (which still seems slower than the news to me) and my speaking massively increased thanks to Michel Thomas but eventually I started noticing things in books that I had no way of repeating myself (Relative clauses kill me) not to mention the preposition differences between Spanish and English.
I've seen this mentioned on other threads before about how rare it is to meet someone advanced/fluent in Spanish as a 2nd language so it does seem to be an issue for Spanish learners. The best I have met were French, Italian and Portugese native speakers somewhat unsurprisingly. But as others have noted, Spanish is still a far easier language than other languages to learn (for English speakers) than Russian or Chinese for example. So though I would certainly agree that Spanish is a wolf in sheep's clothing I would still argue that Russian is a bear and China is a tiger in terms of overall difficulty, regardless of the animals' particular dress sense. (I know you said native speakers but I had to contribute because I've been contemplating this quite a bit lately) Edited by crafedog on 09 June 2010 at 6:38am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Luk Triglot Groupie Argentina Joined 5335 days ago 91 posts - 127 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English, French Studies: Italian, German, Mandarin, Greek | Message 31 of 73 10 June 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
That doesn't matter. Those are two very different dictionaries, their goals as dictionaries are not the same
I would like to say a few things here. Maria Moliner's dictionary was meant to be a dictionary "of use" ("de uso"), that is, a dictionary that gathers, explains and extends about words of every day use and some academic terms. It is know as a dictionary for writers. The DRAE is meant to be a "guardian" of the Spanish language, its purpuses are to gather words that can be used in academic papers (you MUST use this dictionary if you want to present an academic paper) and also one important objectif is to safeguard those words that have an intrinsic value (for its cultural richness). Not many natives knows this despite the fact that you can read this from their introductions (who reads that? me!). I also have studied this at college. Another thing is that I like to let you people know that up untill the Maria Moliner's edition of 1994 it is a Maria Moliner Dictionary. After that, the publishing company, Gredos, use the same name to update the dictionary that, according to Maria Moliner's sons, contained so many changes that it cannot be consider a Moliner's anymore. In fact, they began a Lawsuit against Gredos for this. Luckily I manage to buy recently a perfect condition 1992 edition. And for you learners of Spanish, don't get so nervous if a word doesn't appear in the DRAE, that doesn't mean that you can't use it, for instance: the word "galletita" (cookie) doesn't appear in the DRAE and it's a very common word here in Buenos Aires. Edited by Luk on 10 June 2010 at 9:24pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 32 of 73 10 June 2010 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
Of course it matters. I know perfectly well that they are very different dictionaries and that their goals are not the same. I own both, and I use both. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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