Spanish: A wolf in sheep’s clothing (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Spanish: A wolf in sheep’s clothing
Tags: Difficulty \| Spanish
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Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages

73 messages over 10 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 5 ... 9 10 Next >>

Luk
Triglot
Groupie
Argentina
Joined 5335 days ago
91 posts - 127 votes

Speaks: Spanish*, English, French
Studies: Italian, German, Mandarin, Greek

Message 33 of 73

10 June 2010 at 11:08pm | IP Logged

tractor wrote:

Luk wrote:

tractor wrote:

The strange thing is that María Moliner defines 'populación' simply as "población",
while the definition in the DRAE only matches the first of the 5 meanings of "población".

That doesn't matter. Those are two very different dictionaries, their goals as dictionaries are not the same

Of course it matters. I know perfectly well that they are very different dictionaries and that their goals are not the
same. I own both, and I use both.

No, it doesn't. What does matter is in what context you want to use the word.

--edit--

I didn't mean to say that you didn't know their differences.

Edited by Luk on 10 June 2010 at 11:14pm
1 person has voted this message useful

frenkeld
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6943 days ago
2042 posts - 2719 votes

Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: German

Message 34 of 73

10 June 2010 at 11:12pm | IP Logged

Well, the definitions shouldn't be incorrect.

1 person has voted this message useful

tractor
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5453 days ago
1349 posts - 2292 votes

Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan
Studies: French, German, Latin

Message 35 of 73

10 June 2010 at 11:23pm | IP Logged

Luk wrote:

tractor wrote:

Luk wrote:

tractor wrote:

The strange thing is that María Moliner defines
'populación' simply as "población",
while the definition in the DRAE only matches the first of the 5 meanings of "población".

That doesn't matter. Those are two very different dictionaries, their goals as dictionaries are not the same

Of course it matters. I know perfectly well that they are very different dictionaries and that their goals are not the
same. I own both, and I use both.

No, it doesn't. What does matter is in what context you want to use the word.

Then the dictionary should give a clue about the context, especially a dictionary such as María Moliner's.

Edited by tractor on 10 June 2010 at 11:26pm
1 person has voted this message useful

frenkeld
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6943 days ago
2042 posts - 2719 votes

Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: German

Message 36 of 73

11 June 2010 at 12:00am | IP Logged

crafedog wrote:

I've seen this mentioned on other threads before about how rare it is to meet someone advanced/fluent in Spanish as a 2nd language so it does seem to be an issue for Spanish learners.

Are fluent speakers of Italian, French, and German really that much more numerous? It's possible, of course, but even if true, it wouldn't constitute proof that Spanish is unusually difficult.

There can be a self-selection effect among Spanish learners, with more people attracted to it that are not interested in or not capable of reaching high proficiency.

Edited by frenkeld on 11 June 2010 at 12:12am
1 person has voted this message useful

Juаn
Senior Member
Colombia
Joined 5345 days ago
727 posts - 1830 votes

Speaks: Spanish*

Message 37 of 73

11 June 2010 at 4:05am | IP Logged

frenkeld wrote:

Well, the definitions shouldn't be incorrect.

As you know, language is not math. A particular way of employing a word can be both wrong and right depending on many circumstances such as context, place and epoch, and no dictionary can substitute for becoming acquainted with a language in its many dimensions.

Again, once you surmount initial obstacles (in some cases formidable) such as a complex grammar (Sanskrit or Russian), an ideographic writing system (Chinese or Japanese), or a mixture of complexity and remove from one's own language (Arabic or Tamil for a Westerner), the task of mastering a language requires a kind of genius that goes beyond those features. It is just that some languages like Spanish have been greatly rationalized and let you embark on that labor sooner.
4 persons have voted this message useful

Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6439 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes

Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

Message 38 of 73

11 June 2010 at 4:16am | IP Logged

Juаn wrote:

Again, once you surmount initial obstacles (in some cases formidable) such as a complex grammar (Sanskrit or Russian), an ideographic writing system (Chinese or Japanese), or a mixture of complexity and remove from one's own language (Arabic or Tamil for a Westerner), the task of mastering a language requires a kind of genius that goes beyond those features. It is just that some languages like Spanish have been greatly rationalized and let you embark on that labor sooner.

That sounds surprisingly like an argument for Esperanto.

1 person has voted this message useful

Juаn
Senior Member
Colombia
Joined 5345 days ago
727 posts - 1830 votes

Speaks: Spanish*

Message 39 of 73

11 June 2010 at 4:52am | IP Logged

Volte wrote:

That sounds surprisingly like an argument for Esperanto.

If what one looks for in a language is but a means of communication. Spanish offers you this plus centuries of literature, thought and culture, from the windmills of Cervantes to Borges' dreams.
5 persons have voted this message useful

Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6439 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes

Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

Message 40 of 73

11 June 2010 at 5:03am | IP Logged

Juаn wrote:

Volte wrote:

That sounds surprisingly like an argument for Esperanto.

If what one looks for in a language is but a means of communication. Spanish offers you this plus centuries of literature, thought and culture, from the windmills of Cervantes to Borges' dreams.

Your post did not mention those things, and Esperanto has over a century of literature, thought, and culture. Once again, I'll refer to Geoffrey Sutton's "Concise Encyclopedia of the Original Literature of Esperanto".

1 person has voted this message useful

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