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Czech pronunciation woes | ||
Tags: Czech | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Waldheim Newbie United States Joined 5045 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Studies: German | Message 1 of 10 21 June 2011 at 12:35am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm working with the Pimsleur Conversational Czech, which is audio-only, and there are a
few pronunciation inconsistencies among the speakers that I wanted to clear up. Initial Js: sometimes they're pronounced as though they're a syllable; sometimes they're sort of whispered, and sometimes it's as though the words "jsem" and "jste" are spelled "sem" and "ste." (By the way, they keep using "ste" like it means singular informal "you." That's not right, is it?) Hidden ň: so is "promiňte" pronounced "promeente" or "promeenyete"? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Wompi Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 4956 days ago 56 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: German*, Spanish, English Studies: Czech | Message 2 of 10 21 June 2011 at 8:45am | IP Logged | ||
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I haven´t used Pimsleur yet, because it is not available in German <-> Czech but
as far as I can say from my studies in Czech: "jste" is like in German "Sie"(Singular) and is the formal version and jsi is like the normal you (or "du" in German). So I don´t think thats correct if they use it informal. The ň, I think, is pronounced like the second version: "promeenyte". In German I would pronounce it like "Prominjte" About the Js I don´t know. I think it depends on the speaker and his accent. I also recognized that they pronounce sometimes pokoji like pokoje. Edit: Minor changes Edited by Wompi on 21 June 2011 at 8:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5009 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 3 of 10 21 June 2011 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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As a native speaker I'd say there is quite no difference between pronouncing "jste" and "ste". "Jste" is used by some people speaking formally but I've even heard some czech teachers say it is wrong. I've never been sure about it and haven't found any reliable source on that matter. I'd say it's really not a big deal.
But for sure plural is the formal and polite version while singular is rather informal as Wompi said. About ň, I'm not sure I can give you advice because I don't understand your phonetical writing. If you know how to pronounce Spanish ñ, I'd say it's quite the same thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Waldheim Newbie United States Joined 5045 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Studies: German | Message 4 of 10 21 June 2011 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks to both of you on the "jste"--it turns out that I was not looking at a very good
conjugation chart. On "promiňte," I understand how ň is normally supposed to sound. The problem is that I keep hearing that particular word pronounced as though it has a plain n rather than ň. For example, this sounds correct to me (it's the fourth clip listed), but this one just sounds like "prominte" to me. Is this a regional difference? Is the second clip just incorrect? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josef Newbie Czech Republic Joined 4860 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: Czech* Studies: EnglishC1, German | Message 5 of 10 05 August 2011 at 9:09am | IP Logged | ||
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I think it is so:
English: I am, you are, he/she/it is, we are, you are, they are. Deutsch: ich bin, du bist, er/sie/es ist, wir sind, ihr seid, sie sind Czech: já jsem, ty jsi, on/ona/ono je, my jsme, vy jste, oni jsou The word "jsem (jste)" is not wrong (Good teacher can't say that this word is wrong)- in this cases. Using words "sem (ste)" instead "jsem (jste)" is against rules of the Czech language, but many Czechs often use these words (ste, sem). When "die Deutschen siezen",in the Czech language is used "jste" instead "jsi". (já, ty, on, ona, ono, my, vy, oni - personal pronouns) (jsem - verb) Excuse me, please, I don't speak English well. Edited by Josef on 05 August 2011 at 9:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| zrak0plovac Diglot Newbie Croatia Joined 5185 days ago 6 posts - 9 votes Speaks: Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishB2 Studies: Russian | Message 6 of 10 05 August 2011 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Aren't "jsem/jste" just the emphasized form of the auxiliary verb "byt" in the present indicative tense?
I couldn't help but notice the great resemblance in comparison with my native language, where this is the case: ja jesam(sam), ti jesi(si), on/ona/ono jest(je) mi jesmo(smo), vi jeste(ste), oni/one/ona jesu(su) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5009 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 7 of 10 05 August 2011 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||
I don't agree it is wrong. Most of my teachers who touched this topic agreed that saying "ste" and "sem" is actually the more correct pronunciation. Using "jste" and "jsem" is not that wrong as well unless you put a huge accent on the "j" which would make you sound snobbish (or trying to sound right without knowing how to). Media may prefer the "jste" version (which sounds completely unnatural from many of the speakers in radio or television) but the language is really not formed by the media only. Most people don't use "ste, sem" just often, most people use it always in normal conversation. Well educated people as well. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josef Newbie Czech Republic Joined 4860 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: Czech* Studies: EnglishC1, German | Message 8 of 10 08 August 2011 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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[QUOTE=zrak0plovac] Aren't "jsem/jste" just the emphasized form of the auxiliary verb "byt" in the present indicative tense?
I couldn't help but notice the great resemblance in comparison with my native language, where this is the case: ja jesam(sam), ti jesi(si), on/ona/ono jest(je) mi jesmo(smo), vi jeste(ste), oni/one/ona jesu(su) ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------- It is true. "Jsem, jste, je"... are the forms of the verb "být". "Být" is infinitive, "jsem, jsi, je..." are forms of "být" in present tense. Edited by Josef on 08 August 2011 at 1:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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