Using Biblical Text For Learning Spanish (Specific Languages) Language Learning Forum

Using Biblical Text For Learning Spanish
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GinBoxer
Tetraglot
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United States
subdiversity.com
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Speaks: English*, Spanish, Yiddish, Greek
Studies: Arabic (Levantine), Russian

Message 9 of 23

08 August 2011 at 4:38pm | IP Logged

I used to read from the Reina Valera 1909 NT. While it seemed to me a lot closer to modern Spanish than the KJV is to modern English (understandably, as it was translated several hundred years later), there are still numerous constructions and vocabulary that sound archaic (to a non-native speaker).

Here's a few that I can spot:

     Gen. 12:3 Y bendeciré á los que te bendijeren, y á los que te maldijeren maldeciré:

"bendijeren" and "maldijeren" are examples of the future subjunctive, which I have never heard in speaking and have rarely found in reading outside biblical and legal literature.

     Gen. 12:15 Viéronla también los príncipes de Faraón, y se la alabaron; y fué llevada la mujer á casa de Faraón:

In contemporary speech and writing, the object pronoun would always be pre-positioned to the verb (unless the verb is an infinitive or present participle). I.e.:

La vieron : "They saw her"
viéndola : "seeing her"
verse : to be seen (to seem)

Also note that modern orthography does not require accents on "fue" ("was") and "a" ("to")

The Reina Valera translation also makes extensive us of "vosotros" (you-plural) forms, which *are* still in written and verbal use today in Spain, but are *not* used anywhere else (in Latin America).

E.g.:
      Mat. 6:20 Mas haceos tesoros en el cielo, donde ni polilla ni orín corrompe, y donde ladrones no minan ni hurtan:

In modern Latin American usage (and polite Castillian usage):

Instead of "haceos (vosotros)", it would be "háganse (Ustedes)". This distinction would affect all forms of the 2nd-person-plural.

Note also that "mas" (without accent) is an archaic word for "pero" ("but"– c.f. Italian "ma", Portuguese "mas")

Reading something that you're very interested in (such as the Bible or BOM) can only be good for your Spanish, in that it will expose you to much more and keep you motivated– but it will be especially helpful to stay conscious of the differences and archaisms so that you learn to distinguish them just as a native speaker would.
4 persons have voted this message useful

Animalia
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United States
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 10 of 23

09 August 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged

Thank you everyone for the replies. Special Thanks to GinBoxer for the indepth explanation.

After some brainstormiing on the subject using my Bible may be more problamatic then the B.O.M. Several reasons here. Its kjv so reading it in English while listening to even slightly "newer" Spanish may be hard... because I believe I will be trying to process to much.

Example while L-R Spanish Audio-English kjv If i heard:
"escúchame"

I would most read something like:
"Hearken unto me"

I would have to process that "Hearken unto me" means "listen to me" and then try and connect that with "escúchame"
Which seems like it could get out of hand especially if there was vosotros (Since I have mostly learned Latin American Spanish) Since I would then have to hear "escucháisme" while reading "all hearken unto me" thinking that that means "you all listen to me" not only would I get behind but I still wouldnt know the ustedes conjugation which is more practical for me living in Texas.

However the Book of Mormon does some use of vosotros but a bilingual missionary said its not very extensive. The only time it is used is when there is a "undefined amount/group of people" The English says "ye" in the place of it.

Such as
"ye all are sinners"--- Would use the vosotros conjugation since we just know ye is plural
"you twenty of israel are sinners" would use ustedes conjugation since it is plural but defined

Anyways I will let you guys know how everything goes with trying to encorporate this into my lessons.

1 person has voted this message useful

Arekkusu
Hexaglot
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Canada
bit.ly/qc_10_lec
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Message 12 of 23

09 August 2011 at 2:58pm | IP Logged

"I, Nephi having been born of goodly parents, therefor I was taught somewhat in all the learnings of my father."

If you met an ESL student who spoke like that, what would you think?

2 persons have voted this message useful

Merv
Bilingual Diglot
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United States
Joined 5273 days ago
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Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian*
Studies: Spanish, French

Message 13 of 23

09 August 2011 at 4:07pm | IP Logged

GinBoxer wrote:

I used to read from the Reina Valera 1909 NT. While it seemed to me a lot closer to modern
Spanish than the KJV is to modern English (understandably, as it was translated several hundred years later),
there are still numerous constructions and vocabulary that sound archaic (to a non-native speaker).

Here's a few that I can spot:

     Gen. 12:3 Y bendeciré á los que te bendijeren, y á los que te maldijeren maldeciré:

"bendijeren" and "maldijeren" are examples of the future subjunctive, which I have never heard in speaking and
have rarely found in reading outside biblical and legal literature.

     Gen. 12:15 Viéronla también los príncipes de Faraón, y se la alabaron; y fué llevada la mujer
á casa de Faraón:

In contemporary speech and writing, the object pronoun would always be pre-positioned to the verb (unless the
verb is an infinitive or present participle). I.e.:

La vieron : "They saw her"
viéndola : "seeing her"
verse : to be seen (to seem)

Also note that modern orthography does not require accents on "fue" ("was") and "a" ("to")

The Reina Valera translation also makes extensive us of "vosotros" (you-plural) forms, which *are* still in written
and verbal use today in Spain, but are *not* used anywhere else (in Latin America).

E.g.:
      Mat. 6:20 Mas haceos tesoros en el cielo, donde ni polilla ni orín corrompe, y donde ladrones no minan
ni hurtan:

In modern Latin American usage (and polite Castillian usage):

Instead of "haceos (vosotros)", it would be "háganse (Ustedes)". This distinction would affect all forms of the
2nd-person-plural.

Note also that "mas" (without accent) is an archaic word for "pero" ("but"– c.f. Italian "ma", Portuguese
"mas")

Reading something that you're very interested in (such as the Bible or BOM) can only be good for your Spanish, in
that it will expose you to much more and keep you motivated– but it will be especially helpful to stay conscious
of the differences and archaisms so that you learn to distinguish them just as a native speaker would.

Of the archaicisms you mention, what remains in the 1960 edition is the future subjunctive, the word "mas" for
pero, and vosotros, which is not archaic in Spain anyway.
2 persons have voted this message useful

Hampie
Diglot
Senior Member
Sweden
Joined 6659 days ago
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Speaks: Swedish*, English
Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin

Message 14 of 23

09 August 2011 at 4:21pm | IP Logged

I’d say: get the most modern English Bible you can find — even though it might not fit the theology you yourself
live according too, and then the most modern Spanish Bible you can find. The New Testament was written as close
to the way people spoke for a reason (as opposed to the poetic archaic style of the Old Testament). Maybe NT is a
better place to go? Especially since NT is more import an for Christians than OT is (and for latter day saints too, I
believe?). There has to be a Spanish bible translation that’s newer than 1960! Also, KJV is very old… Hearken..
There are many, many translations into English that use modern day language that you could use for the sake of
language learning! (And you would also get a more nuanced view of the Scriptures! Translation includes
interpretation!)
1 person has voted this message useful

resinteralios
Newbie
Brazil
Joined 4900 days ago
7 posts - 12 votes
Studies: English

Message 15 of 23

10 August 2011 at 12:55pm | IP Logged

There's a version of the Bible in Castillan that's supposed to be more modern, it's La Biblia de Las Américas.

You can find it on the Unbound Bible site (where you can read up to 4 Bible version side by side).

Here are the previously quoted passages in LBdlA's version:

Gen 12:3 Bendeciré a los que te bendigan,
y al que te maldiga, maldeciré.
Y en ti serán benditas todas las familias de la tierra.

Gen 12:15 Y la vieron los oficiales de Faraón, y la alabaron delante de él; y la mujer fue llevada a la casa de Faraón.

Mat 6:20 sino acumulaos tesoros en el cielo, donde ni la polilla ni la herrumbre destruyen, y donde ladrones no penetran ni roban;

Unbound Bible
3 persons have voted this message useful

James29
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5375 days ago
1265 posts - 2113 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French

Message 16 of 23

14 August 2011 at 4:02am | IP Logged

The Nueva Vida by Barbour Publishing has a controlled vocabulary of 850 words and is great for learning Spanish. It is definitely the easiest Spanish Bible. Unfortunately, there is not an audio book.

The Dios Habla Hoy is more challenging than the Nueva Vida, but much easier than the below versions. There is a free downloadable Spanish audio book at faithcomesbyhearing.com It is the easiest Spanish Bible with an audio book.

The NVI is an extremely popular version and there is free streaming Spanish audio online, but I forget where it is (I will try to update this post if I remember). It uses fairly current vocabulary and I think it would be the best version for language learning at a high level.

The Reina Valera is available online at many places including wordproject.org

Biblia de las Americas is available in free Spanish audio book at biblegateway.com

All of these Bibles/Biblias are available in bilingual text at Amazon.

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