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Irish pronunciation | ||
Tags: Gaelic (Irish) | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 17 of 23 15 August 2011 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The sound is different because of vowels, intonation, frequency of consonantsand the differencies I mentioned before. It doesn't matter what role palatalization plays. If you can distinguish between broad and slender "l", you will be able to distinguish between focal and focail, for example. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 18 of 23 15 August 2011 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Here there are a lot of samples of Western dialect. Doesn't it seem to you that
consonants are similar to Russian? http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=RUFwGFO0cfU Edited by Марк on 15 August 2011 at 8:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6707 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 19 of 23 16 August 2011 at 3:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm not going to try to debate whether the sounds in this case are more or less the same - my point is that the sounds of one language quite generally shouldn't be described as more or less the same at the sounds in any other language. As I mentioned it's a common practice in small language guides and text books, but the general rule is that the sound aren't exactly the same, and in these days where you can hear the sounds through the internet you should concentrate on learning them from the target language itself. Pronouncing a certain language is more than putting isolated sounds in a chain, and Russian does NOT sound like Irish.
Besides I know that making sounds broad or slender functions as a marker in morphological tables on equal footing with things like eclipsis and lenition (and endings), and even though each sound in isolation may be the same as some isolated sound in another language the irish sounds are part of an intricate system which you don't find in Russian. Why then clutter the description of the sounds of Irish with references to an (in this context) irrelevant language? When you first present the letters and the sounds of a certain language it is tempting to follow the line of least resistance, and that is of course to use sounds from wellknown language as an illustration. But after that initial phase it is better to sit down and listen to the language you want to learn. Edited by Iversen on 16 August 2011 at 3:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| CommanderK Bilingual Triglot Newbie Israel melearninglanguages. Joined 5193 days ago 24 posts - 25 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew*, Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 20 of 23 16 August 2011 at 7:15am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Ivensen Do you mean that I should learn Irish pronunciation by IPA? Edited by CommanderK on 16 August 2011 at 7:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 21 of 23 16 August 2011 at 8:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
You can listen for hundred hours of Irish but still cannot pronounce Irish sounds correctly or even hear the difference between phonemes. It's not easy to find a good source of a particular dialect. You need an explanation. The explanations through position of the tongue are not very user-friendly. The person who asked knows Russian, so sources in Russian can help him. You do not need to sound like a native Irish speaker - you have to understand and be understood. Listen to me reading a poem and to recordings of Irish native speakers, that I gave above, and say how different the sound is, and we will see if my method works. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Khublei Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Yugoslavia homestayperu.net Joined 5351 days ago 90 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English*, Irish*, Spanish Studies: Russian, Khasi, French, Albanian | Message 22 of 23 16 August 2011 at 8:54am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Wow! Your accent's really good! I would agree about listening to irish first and then seeing how it's written. I know written guides help, but I've taught Irish a lot and those guides seem to confuse my students more than anything. As for which dialect you should chose. It's just like how a learner of English decides on American or British. I speak Munster Irish so I think that's the best! There is a very neutral type of Irish from the East coast (mostly as they learn from books rather than being native speakers). If you learn the most northern dialect even Irish speakers from other parts of the country won't know what you're saying!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6015 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 23 of 23 16 August 2011 at 10:42am | IP Logged | ||||||||
The IPA isn't very helpful, because: 1) any new sound comes with a new symbol, so if you don't know the sound, you don't know the word. 2) The IPA is approximate, and uses the same symbol for slightly different sounds. 3) Most languages "simplify" the IPA to make it more easily readable in their dictionaries (for example, many drop the superscript-H after aspirated consonants). The Celtic languages have some horrible multiply-marked IPA symbols, and Celticists have generally abandonned them and replaced them with a lower/upper case letter distinction. So I'd say you should start from (as others say) a description. Once you can match the description, you'll start to be able to hear the small differences between what you're doing and what you hear other people doing. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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