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"It" in Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Johntm Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5423 days ago 616 posts - 725 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 9 of 24 04 March 2010 at 5:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks everyone, I think I understand it now.
And thanks Rabochnok for the correction of my post. What context should "por" be used in? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 10 of 24 04 March 2010 at 9:59am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't agree entirely on this one. There are some "neutral" pronouns in Spanish: ello, esto, eso, aquello. When you say "No lo sé", you don't refer to a masculine object or noun. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| simonov Senior Member Portugal Joined 5590 days ago 222 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English | Message 11 of 24 04 March 2010 at 10:15am | IP Logged | |||||
Correction: If you have an infinitive or a present participle ...... Pronouns are never attached to past participles. There is no alternative to "lo he hecho" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 12 of 24 04 March 2010 at 11:38am | IP Logged | |||||
They are not "neutral", because they are all masculine forms. Spanish uses the masculine as default -- for general, abstract or unknown. General/unknown: my brothers and sisters are collectively "mis hermanos" (masculine), my male and female cousins are collectively "mis primos", my aunts and uncles "mis tios" (masculine) and my parents are collectively "mis padres" (literally "my fathers"!) Abstract: the weather is the classic example, and is always masculine. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 13 of 24 04 March 2010 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree that the masculine is the default or unmarked form in Spanish, and you give some good examples. But when it comes to personal and demonstrative pronouns, you have some extra forms in addition to the feminine and masculine:
M: él, éste, ése, aquél F: ella, ésta, ésa, aquélla N: ello, esto, eso, aquello The gender of the weather is questionable. The word "tiempo" itself is of course masculine. But how do you identify the gender in these expamples: Hace sol. Llueve. Está nevando. There is no grammatical marker of gender here. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 14 of 24 04 March 2010 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed, there isn't. That's why you'd revert to masculine, the default. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 15 of 24 04 March 2010 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
They are impersonal expressions, thus there is no true gender. Because the subject can't be identified, the unmarked form, the 3rd person singular, is used. And you can of course use the same logic and say that the gender of the unidentifiable subject must be in the unmarked form, the masculine. I cannot however see how it makes much sense to say the pronouns ello, esto, eso and aquello are masculine and not neuter as long as we have the true masculines él, éste, ése and aquél. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 16 of 24 04 March 2010 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not quite. este is the adjective -- me gusta este coche esto is the demonstrative -- me gusta esto but éste is also a demonstrative meaning "this one" What do you want? I want this -- esto. Which do you want? I want this one -- éste. (ese functions similarly) ello is used for abstract ideas, but is still grammatically masculine and any related adjectives will prove it.
Nonsense. Gender is a grammatical feature and all Western Romance nouns are categorised into two genders. The is no physical sex to an abstract impersonal expression, just as there is no physical sex to a table, yet the Spanish still classify it feminine in gender.... Edited by Cainntear on 04 March 2010 at 2:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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