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Is Croatian considered hardcore?

  Tags: Croatian | Difficulty
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
38 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5  Next >>
ruskivyetr
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
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Studies: Spanish, Russian, Polish, Modern Hebrew

 
 Message 9 of 38
24 April 2010 at 4:55pm | IP Logged 
bushwick wrote:
well, not EXACTLY the same, that's why I said pretty much.
it's like different standardized dialects.

here, found an example on wikipedia (could have made one myself, but let's be sure)

"I want to know whether I'll start working"
Želim da znam da li ću da počnem da radim. (Serbian)
Želim znati hoću li početi raditi. (Croatian)


I can definitely see the similarities and differences there, although some of them aren't understandable.

Why Zelim as the first person conjugation for both, following the South Slavic pattern for the m ending of 1st
person verbs, but then for the verb to know, you have znam (following the same pattern) for Serbian, but then
you have ti for Croatian. Is ti the infinitive? If it is, then why does Serbian go ahead and conjugate infinitve verbs
after conjugated verbs, as seen throughout the rest of the sentence?

Edit: Another question. Does anyone think these languages will become drastically different from one another?
They may be separated nationalistically, but they aren't separated geographically, so I think that they'll stay
within that realm of mutual intelligibility.

Edited by ruskivyetr on 24 April 2010 at 5:01pm
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Delodephius
Bilingual Tetraglot
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Yugoslavia
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 Message 10 of 38
24 April 2010 at 5:05pm | IP Logged 
ruskivyetr wrote:
bushwick wrote:
well, not EXACTLY the same, that's why I said pretty much.
it's like different standardized dialects.

here, found an example on wikipedia (could have made one myself, but let's be sure)

"I want to know whether I'll start working"
Želim da znam da li ću da počnem da radim. (Serbian)
Želim znati hoću li početi raditi. (Croatian)


I can definitely see the similarities and differences there, although some of them aren't understandable.

Why Zelim as the first person conjugation for both, following the South Slavic pattern for the m ending of 1st
person verbs, but then for the verb to know, you have znam (following the same pattern) for Serbian, but then
you have ti for Croatian. Is ti the infinitive? If it is, then why does Serbian go ahead and conjugate infinitve verbs
after conjugated verbs, as seen throughout the rest of the sentence?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/da#Serbo-Croatian
1 person has voted this message useful



chucknorrisman
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
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Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish
Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French

 
 Message 11 of 38
24 April 2010 at 5:54pm | IP Logged 
As for pronunciation, Croatian has ć and č, which seem to be harder to distinguish from each other than Mandarin's q and ch. I think they may be harder to distinguish than, say, the distinction between tense and regular consonants for Korean learners. The pitch accent also seems to be quite challenging.

As for grammar, it doesn't seem to be too difficult compared to most other Slavic languages, as it only has one more case than Russian (vocative).

Edited by chucknorrisman on 24 April 2010 at 6:01pm
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Chung
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Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 12 of 38
24 April 2010 at 7:43pm | IP Logged 
ruskivyetr wrote:
bushwick wrote:
well, not EXACTLY the same, that's why I said pretty much.
it's like different standardized dialects.

here, found an example on wikipedia (could have made one myself, but let's be sure)

"I want to know whether I'll start working"
Želim da znam da li ću da počnem da radim. (Serbian)
Želim znati hoću li početi raditi. (Croatian)


I can definitely see the similarities and differences there, although some of them aren't understandable.

Why Zelim as the first person conjugation for both, following the South Slavic pattern for the m ending of 1st
person verbs, but then for the verb to know, you have znam (following the same pattern) for Serbian, but then
you have ti for Croatian. Is ti the infinitive? If it is, then why does Serbian go ahead and conjugate infinitve verbs
after conjugated verbs, as seen throughout the rest of the sentence?

Edit: Another question. Does anyone think these languages will become drastically different from one another?
They may be separated nationalistically, but they aren't separated geographically, so I think that they'll stay
within that realm of mutual intelligibility.


I think that it's possible but it's a matter of time. I believe that during my lifetime, they'll remain nearly fully mutually intelligible. Contrary to the wishes of nationalists the fact that B/C/M/S *ultimately* draw effectively on a standardization of the same sub-dialects made about 150 years ago means that the "natural" progression to mutual unintelligibility will proceed more slowly than they would like.
1 person has voted this message useful



bushwick
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Netherlands
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Speaks: German, Croatian*, English, Dutch
Studies: French, Japanese

 
 Message 13 of 38
24 April 2010 at 9:26pm | IP Logged 
chucknorrisman wrote:
As for pronunciation, Croatian has ć and č, which seem to be harder to distinguish from each other than Mandarin's q and ch. I think they may be harder to distinguish than, say, the distinction between tense and regular consonants for Korean learners. The pitch accent also seems to be quite challenging.

As for grammar, it doesn't seem to be too difficult compared to most other Slavic languages, as it only has one more case than Russian (vocative).


the differences between č and ć, are difficult for foreigners to hear, yes, especially if not emphasized. even so, the difference will hardly make you less understood. at all actyally, since the difference is only important in the written language; otherwise you may only sound a little awkward.

even so, the vocative is very simple, being only a determiner about who the sentence is addressing, you sure Russian doesn't have it?

ruskivyetr wrote:

Edit: Another question. Does anyone think these languages will become drastically different from one another?


for sure they will, there is still quite a lot of interchange between them, especially on the internet. however, changes in vocabulary and slang are quite unavoidable, but it's interesting to realise that in colloquial Croatian a lot of Serbian words and expressions are still used.

1 person has voted this message useful



WANNABEAFREAK
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Hong Kong
cantonese.hk
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 Message 14 of 38
25 April 2010 at 3:04am | IP Logged 
bushwick wrote:


the differences between č and ć, are difficult for foreigners to hear, yes, especially if not emphasized. even so, the difference will hardly make you less understood. at all actyally, since the difference is only important in the written language; otherwise you may only sound a little awkward.


My dad is Croatian and he told me that if you speak and mix up č and ć, you can still be understood. Is this true?


bushwick wrote:

for sure they will, there is still quite a lot of interchange between them, especially on the internet. however, changes in vocabulary and slang are quite unavoidable, but it's interesting to realise that in colloquial Croatian a lot of Serbian words and expressions are still used.


I'm wondering when you say slang, is it slang like šta and što (eg. šta radiš VS. što radiš) ?
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bushwick
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
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Speaks: German, Croatian*, English, Dutch
Studies: French, Japanese

 
 Message 15 of 38
25 April 2010 at 11:09pm | IP Logged 
You will be completely understood, as said, you may only sound a little strange. As saying "kuča" as opposed to "kuća" seems more stronger. But yes, it's true, no exception.

I wouldn't be so educated to discuss the difference between šta and što, but I think, yes, šta might have developed like that. Although with slang I meant things like colloquialisms and idioms unique to the area, which are bound to occur because of geographic separation (even in different dialects).
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Americano
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Korea, South
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 Message 16 of 38
26 April 2010 at 6:20am | IP Logged 
As easy to learn as Cantonese? LOL Isn't Cantonese generally considered more difficult to learn than Mandarin?


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