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Is Croatian considered hardcore? | ||
Tags: Croatian | Difficulty | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Danac Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5349 days ago 162 posts - 257 votes  Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, Serbo-Croatian, French, Russian, Esperanto | Message 25 of 38 28 April 2010 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, there are indeed plenty of Turkish loanwords in use in the different languages, not just Bosnian. Words like alat (tool), baš (exactly), boja (colour), čizma (boot) and džep (pocket) are all very normal words in all the BCMS languages, but there's also something to be said about loanwords from the other surrounding language areas. There are also loans from Greek, Romance languages like Italian, Latin, Romanian and French, Slavic languages like Czech and Russian, German and English in more recent times. I have lists with examples, I'm just too lazy to write any. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| bushwick Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6245 days ago 407 posts - 443 votes Speaks: German, Croatian*, English, Dutch Studies: French, Japanese | Message 26 of 38 28 April 2010 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Haha, I love these BSCized (sorry!) German words, which seem to be so common, especially with the German diaspora (which I was part of).
My personal favourite, or simply the best I can remember now: "posaugati" = "to vacuum" which comes from the German "saugen". "Posaugaj sobu" being an expression which doesn't bode well :D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Danac Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5349 days ago 162 posts - 257 votes Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, Serbo-Croatian, French, Russian, Esperanto | Message 27 of 38 28 April 2010 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
It cracks me up when I hear words like buter, flaša, šlag and tepih. :P 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5449 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 28 of 38 29 April 2010 at 6:55am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not sure should I bring more confusion into this, but just for the info, maybe someone finds it interesting :) actually, in Serbian, if you ask Da li hoćeš da počneš da radiš? , you will practically be asking Do you want to start working?. To ask Will you start working?, most of the Serbs I know would say Da li ces da pocnes da radis? (I know that 'ces' is shortened of 'hoces', but this is just how the language seems to work :) ) and even more - most of the (educated) Serbs I know would say Da li ćeš poceti da radiš? . This "da...da...da...da..." constructions seem to be more frequent for example in villages (like - I've never heard my grandmother using infitive in such constructions, as I just did). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Danac Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5349 days ago 162 posts - 257 votes Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, Serbo-Croatian, French, Russian, Esperanto | Message 29 of 38 29 April 2010 at 8:35am | IP Logged | |||||
You're very right about this. I looked it up in my grammar, too, and it does say "Da li ćeš...?" for the future form, but in Croatian the only possibility is "Hoćeš li...?", which is also for the future form. Again, you're right about Serbian here. It would mean to want, and not be a future construction. The Croatian (and the Bosnian I hear) prefers the other form, so I'm used to that one. I guess I just derived it from the other one :P The same distinction between to want and the future doesn't exist, like it seems to do in Serbian. I don't know what to say about the occasional use of infinitives in the example you described, but it looks more fair with the balancing of the different elements, although I think I'll have to ask around amongst my teachers for an explanation if they have one. It's also fine to be corrected in things like this to keep on learning. :) Edited by Danac on 29 April 2010 at 8:37am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6448 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 30 of 38 01 May 2010 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
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"Dakanje" is considered incorrect in Croatian. It does occur in spoken and even written language fairly often. Same with the "da li" questions.
Otherwise, "da" is a normal conjunction in Croatian, so it should not be "avoided". Some Croatian dialects are mutually incomprehensible. Č and Ć You forgot to mention DŽ and Đ. Some native speakers have problems with these, and especially with the first two. Is it "hard core"? Is it hard? Who's asking? It's a Slavic language so if you're stuggling with Russian you won't exactly do great in Croatian. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| michi Nonaglot Newbie Austria Joined 5302 days ago 33 posts - 57 votes Speaks: Dutch*, German, French, English, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese Studies: Turkish, Arabic (Written), Serbo-Croatian, Indonesian, Japanese | Message 31 of 38 16 June 2010 at 11:14am | IP Logged | |||||
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I have learned Russian at the university and in the past I have also learned a little bit of Croatian by selfstudy and by attending a one week summer course in Zadar. I would say that Croatian (or Serbo-Croatian) is easier to learn than Russian. It is written in the Latin script and in contrast the pronounciation is very regular and easier than in Russian. E.g. in Russian the vowel "o" is pronounced as "a" when it has no stress, "e" is pronounced as "i", whereas in Serbo-Croatian they are always pronounced as "o" and "e". "č" and "ć" are pronounced different in some areas but the same in others. For convenience I don't make a distinction and never had problems with that.
However Croatian shares many of the problems of other Slavic languages like having seven cases. Therefor I would consider it more difficult to learn that e.g. Swedish of Italian. Historically seen there are no Serbian,Croatian and Bosnian dialects and the names refer to religious differences. The main dialects witin the Serbo-Croatian language continuum are štokavian, kajkavian and čakavian after the words for "what?". Within these three dialects the "ijekavian" ,"ekavian" and "ikavian" subdialects exist. Kajkavian is - was - spoken around Zagreb and čakavian on the Croatian coast. In the rest of the area štokavian dominated. In 1850 eight writers and linguists - Croats, Serbs and one Slovene - signed the Vienna Literary Agreement which designated the štokavian-ijekavian dialect from the East-Hercegovina as standard language for all Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (and Bosnians). Although the Slovenes - whose dialects are quite different - finally dropped out and the Serbs switched to the ekavian variant, this is essentially the basis of the Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian and Montegrin languages. Although there are some minor grammatical and lexical differences - Croatian use more Slavic and Serbs international words - the differences between the languages are small and I would rather call them variants of the same language. I have learned Croatian because I love the Croatian coast, but in Bosnia I suggest to speak Bosnian and in Serbia Serbian whereas I always speak the same way. I have the feeling the nationalist hysteria that cost so many lives is diminishing in former Yugoslavia and I hope that in the end linguistic cooperation will prevail. Some Croats have told me that they have to buy books of Serbian authors in Vienna, because everything Serbian is still taboo in Croatia. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Danac Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5349 days ago 162 posts - 257 votes Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, Serbo-Croatian, French, Russian, Esperanto | Message 32 of 38 17 June 2010 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'd agree to the first part of your post about the relative difficulty of BCS. I find it to be somewhere around the same level as German. (the only fair comparison; I don't know Russian. It's not nearly as hard as Latin or Ancient Greek was for me.) I can't agree completely to the part about dialects. The first sentence especially is wrong in several ways. Since the breakup of the second Yugoslavia, there has indeed been a very specific language codification process in each state. You may or may not believe in these projects, but they still exist. The fact remains that there is indeed a seperate Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian standard, and maybe there'll be a Montenegrin one in a few years as well. Besides, these standards transcend belief. Croats and Serbs from Bosnia still speak Bosnian just like the Moslems, even if they state that they don't. Also, you seem to know a little about the different ways of distinguishing between the languages, but there's still a whole field of dialectology to learn about. There are several subdialects within the Stokavian area, which you can see on these maps. http://ostava.012webpages.com/Slika%20dijalekata%20po%20D.%2 0Brozovicu.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shtokavian_Subdialect_en.p ng (the maps don't show the cakavian and kajkavian areas, they're obviously not stokavian) Everything might be different now due to the the war and its consequences, so the maps might not be totally accurate. Also, as with so many other places, speaking in the local dialect tends to be less prestigious than the standard language, so that might account for a decrease in dialect usage among young people. I'd agree to the last part. The three languages are mutually intelligible, but if you can adjust your language from country to country, you'd probably be better off. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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