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Japanese tai-desu and object marker | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tennisfan Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5361 days ago 130 posts - 247 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: German | Message 1 of 7 20 July 2011 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've just started to dabble in Japanese over the last few weeks. I've started with the MT course, and so far I find it fantastic. I have one quick question, though, since there seems to be a discrepancy between the MT course and a book I have. Maybe someone can help.
During the MT Foundation course, they cover the "(verb)-tai-desu" form. And in the lessons, they use the object marker "o" to denote the direct object. But in Japanese Step by Step, the author says that is not correct. For example, in MT, they say stuff like "biru-o nomi-tai-desu," "sushi-o tabe-tai-desu." or "eiga-o mi-tai-desu." But in the other book, he says "this form is treated as an adjective of subjective feelings, and therefore takes the form -ga." His examples are "kabuki-ga mi-tai-desu" and "ringo-ga tabe-tai-desu." Feel free to tell me that this is something that MT is oversimplifying for the sake of beginners, and that later I'll understand. Normally I'd be more patient but when I saw that for "tabe-tai-desu" one person says "sushi-o" and the other says "sushi-ga," it confused me a bit. Edited by tennisfan on 20 July 2011 at 9:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6950 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 2 of 7 21 July 2011 at 2:48am | IP Logged | ||
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I've heard both. My guess is that "sushi ga tabetai" is the official, correct way to say
it, but that many people say "sushi o tabetai" because with all the other verb forms they say "sushi o tabe[ru/ta/te/tara/saseru/etc.]" A google search for "寿司が食べたい” (with ga) turns up 230,000 hits, while "寿司を食べたい" (with o) turns up 793,000. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Fiveonefive Diglot Groupie Japan Joined 5694 days ago 69 posts - 88 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Swedish | Message 3 of 7 21 July 2011 at 4:53am | IP Logged | ||
The author would be correct if tai was a normal adjective, but it's not. It is derived from a verb (tagaru) so you can use any particle normally associated with verbs. Technically both forms are correct and neither is incorrect but, IMO, using ga instead of wo gives a little more emphasis on what you want to do because ga sounds quite a bit stronger than wo. I hope that makes sense. Edited by Fiveonefive on 21 July 2011 at 4:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| starrye Senior Member United States Joined 5095 days ago 172 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 4 of 7 21 July 2011 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Tae Kim's guide explains in more detail how to use -tai form and what particles you can use with it:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/desire They are both interchangeable with the -tai form. As for when to use -ga, it's been explained to me that -ga has a stronger feel and adds more emphasis, as Fiveonefive said. Like for example, you were being asked a question, or being given different choices between several options... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fiveonefive Diglot Groupie Japan Joined 5694 days ago 69 posts - 88 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Swedish | Message 5 of 7 22 July 2011 at 2:26am | IP Logged | ||
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寿司を食べたい - I want to eat some sushi (neutral - and no one cares because everyone wants to eat sushi)
寿司が食べたい - I want to eat some sushi (and I really insist on doing it, and if I had some in front of me I'd totally eat all your maguro) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5784 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 6 of 7 22 July 2011 at 3:22am | IP Logged | ||
Tae Kim also wrote an article titled Ssh, don’t tell anyone but… you can use 「を」 with the 「たい」 form and a follow up, Part 2 on the non-existent 「たい」 form rule. In addition to 寿司を食べたい、寿司が食べたい、and 寿司は食べたい you have a fourth choice of 寿司食べたい. And since it happened to be the article next to the above two, here's a link to an article describing this phenomenon: Bet you didn’t know it even existed, well… it doesn’t. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| AndyMeg Diglot Groupie Colombia Joined 4927 days ago 48 posts - 62 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 7 of 7 31 July 2011 at 3:10am | IP Logged | ||
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That was the lesson of two weeks ago in a japanese course I`m taking, and the sensei (who is japanese) teached us that both particles could be used with the tai form.
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