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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes  Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 1 of 9 13 February 2010 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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According to this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_script#Examples), there are the transliterations of the Mongolian script Mongolian and the Cyrillic script Mongolian.
Transliteration from Mongolian Script Mongolian: Vikipediya čilügetü nebterkei toli bičig bola Transliteration from Cyrillic Script Mongolian: Vikipedia chölööt nevterkhii toli bichig boloi. The Mongolian Script is used in Inner Mongolia, and the Cyrillic Script is used in Republic of Mongolia. Are the dialects of these two places this much different? Could you verify for me? Thanks! :) I never really got this question solved the last time I asked about it, but then I guess I didn't word the question too well that time... 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Wilco Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6331 days ago 160 posts - 247 votes Speaks: French*, English, Russian | Message 2 of 9 13 February 2010 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't know the classical mongolian alphabet, and I don't speak Mongolian, so I can't answer your question. But the Mongolian cyrillic script is really, really not representative of what it sounds like. So it's quite possible that both čilügetü-chölööt are pronounced the same way, even though the transliteration is different. Pretty much the same thing for Mongγol (transcription of classical) and Монгол.
Maybe you should try findind a transcription in the phonetic alphabet for both scripts? Then you could compare and see if those differences are really dialectal, or just a deformation due to different scripts. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 3 of 9 18 February 2010 at 12:46am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks. I didn't know that the Cyrillic Mongolian was such an unrepresentative writing system of the sounds...
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| minus273 Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5766 days ago 288 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan | Message 4 of 9 18 February 2010 at 3:44am | IP Logged | |||||
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The Cyrillic is closer to the pronunciation. The Standard Mongolian in China and Mongolia are based on different dialects, but they are not that ****ing different yet.
Instead, when we write in the Mongolian script, we write essentially in a pronunciation several hundred years ago, just as we do in English or French or Tibetan or any once well-intentioned orthography fixed long ago. On the contrary, the Cyrillic script transcribes faithfully the Halh phonology at the time of its creation. So when a Southern Mongolian writes "čilügetü", he does pronounce it like "chölööt", or something to this effect. It's quite easy to imagine how the Classical čilügetü becomes chölööt. čilügetü <FINAL VOWEL REMOVAL> čilüget <LENITION> čilüγet <LOSS OF Ğ> čilüet <VOWEL FUSION> čilööt <REGRESSIVE ASSIMILATION> čölööt Of course, not represented in the chart is the transformation of front-back vowel harmony to retracted tongue root/advanced tongue root. Edited by minus273 on 18 February 2010 at 3:45am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 5 of 9 18 February 2010 at 4:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh, I see... So is there a sort of diglossia? I guess I would need to learn both the written form based on the classical Mongolian and the modern spoken Mongolian in order to communicate with Inner Mongolians?
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| minus273 Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5766 days ago 288 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan | Message 6 of 9 18 February 2010 at 11:07am | IP Logged | |||||
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Not really diglossia. It's like English. We spell the modern language with a historical orthography. It doesn't mean that we still pronounce "nice" as "neece" as we did when the spelling was fixed. Edited by minus273 on 18 February 2010 at 11:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 7 of 9 18 February 2010 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think I understand now... Thank you! By the way, does anyone know where to learn to learn Mongolian in the Mongolian Script Mongolian? I've only found ones that taught it with Cyrillic. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| minus273 Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5766 days ago 288 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan | Message 8 of 9 24 February 2010 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
There is one developed by TUFS teaching Inner Mongolian, if you read Japanese. Otherwise, no luck. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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