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The Lady Learner in MT French | ||
Tags: Michel Thomas | French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| scop Diglot Groupie Ireland Joined 5850 days ago 70 posts - 73 votes  Speaks: English*, Irish Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 25 of 33 12 April 2011 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have always assumed they were scripted as well if only because the students, leaving aside faults that we discern as passive listeners at first, are often quite good when one compares them with most language learners. There does seem to be a certain 'all too fast' pick up on their part and as much as I respect MT (after Assimil the top method in my book) the pace that people learn in it does not seem feasible to me.
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| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5419 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 26 of 33 13 April 2011 at 2:59am | IP Logged | ||
I kind of doubt they are scripted considering the volume of errors the students make per course varies tremendously. My father has completed the Italian, German, French, Polish and Arabic courses and noted the differences in abilities of the students and lamented at how on the Arabic course for example, both students were pretty bad with the male student being just atrocious while being fairly impressed with the ability of both students on the Polish courses, despite the mistakes they inevitably made. I've completed the French and Japanese courses, both Foundation and advanced and I get the feeling the mistakes are real myself, unless a couple here or there are scripted to provide a little more practice with a certain point. Considering the amount of times the female student in the Japanese courses screwed up how to use the marker を on a ridiculous amount of occasions, it was evident she was genuinely not picking up the patterns too well and was actually learning them at the time. She would rush into her answers and screwed up way too often on some of the most utterly basic things to the point where I was shouting a whole multitude of colourful expletives at my computer in annoyance at the constant stutters in the progress of the course. Personally, I thought the pacing of the courses was fine and was able to understand, retain and utilise the language patterns taught without much issue, but occasionally had to go over a point twice to make sure it stuck. Very rarely did I find the mistakes of the students helpful though. I suppose it just depends on a person's ability to recognise patterns and to utilise them, but of course you need enough practice with them and I thought the courses were fine as long as right after the courses you tried to make use of what you learned otherwise it would fade away. I'd say I have fairly average intelligence and I coped with the speed of the courses without issue, so I'm not sure I'd say the courses were necessarily too fast for most people and my father never had a problem with the courses either, with the exception of Polish which he coped with but found it hard work. Still, I could be totally wrong, but I'd like to see some actual evidence from a reputable source that the responses of the students were scripted. The booklets of the courses maintain that the students responses were not scripted and considering my experience as well as my father's with different MT courses, I'm inclined to believe that is genuinely the case. Edited by jazzboy.bebop on 13 April 2011 at 3:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 27 of 33 13 April 2011 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | ||
A) The course you hear is MT teaching the students on the recording. He adapts to their weaknesses, so they should learn faster. B) The courses MT recorded were done in one weekend -- the students on the recording didn't have the "forgetting time" that someone listening to the CDs bit by bit would have. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| scop Diglot Groupie Ireland Joined 5850 days ago 70 posts - 73 votes Speaks: English*, Irish Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 28 of 33 13 April 2011 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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I stand convinced. Thanks for the insights although I admit it hits my confidence a bit to know the the two students on the German courses (I am on the advanced now) are geniune students just picking all this up so fast. I mean it must have something as well to do with his presence because if he did all that in a weekend he really is the genius I sort of suspected he is. Edited by scop on 13 April 2011 at 3:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6551 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 29 of 33 17 April 2011 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe the courses are scripted. Less the original courses than the the others, perhaps, but definitely scripted. By
that I mean there is heavy editing, coaching, and yes even scripts written to help with the deception. Many of the mistakes are orchestrated. It's really not too hard to detect, so some of your responses are surprising. And have you ever wondered why an ideal question was asked, allowing a teacher to explain a key point? What a coincidence! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mr_chinnery Senior Member England Joined 5758 days ago 202 posts - 297 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 31 of 33 17 April 2011 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | ||
Coincidences aren't evidence of editing, coaching or scripts. The simplest explanation is usually the right one i.e. MT's method is pretty good, but some students are pretty bad. After all you never heard of people who took his personal tuition suing him because it didn't work, especially as they pay thousands of dollars. The amount of questions the pupils ask are few and far between, some people would of asked many more. But I'm sure there are reams of evidence to support the theory it's all faked! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| anothername Triglot Groupie Brazil Joined 5062 days ago 96 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Spanish, English | Message 32 of 33 17 April 2011 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
I wouldn't believe in spontaneity in such a comercially released product. Not even if "the lady of french" herself come to the forum and innocently tell us it was unrehearsed. The book publishing industry is just like any other industry, guys. There are very strict standards to be followed, especially in such a wide market as language learning, and there's no chance the big shots would risk reputations on a "live-recorded" show with no script to be followed by the teacher and his "live students". This is no Woodstock. Or do you believe this industry is run by language-learning enthusiasts that don't care so much about profit and control, and would allow such a freedom just because "mr. Thomas' name" (whatever this means) is involved? No way. (no matter if the method is good or not) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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