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Shanghaiese, Tibetan, Manchu | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4930 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes  Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 1 of 9 09 June 2011 at 3:26am | IP Logged |
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In the realm of China's endangered languages (which seems to be 'anything that's not Mandarin') are there any current efforts on this forum to learn Shanghaiese or Tibetan?
I know that in Guangdong, (and probably most places in China) Shanghaiese seems to cause the most confusion. I played a Shanghaiese mp3 for someone whose mother is from Shanghai and who claimed to understand a little of it. He could not identify the language and was completely perplexed. Without going into the politics of Tibetan, is there anyone on the forum now that is actively studying it? If so, what is your focus? Speaking? Reading? And why do you study it? Finally, Manchu. This language is almost gone these days, and is perhaps the most striking example of how Mandarin assimilates and obliterates neighboring languages. In the 17th Century, the Manchus invade China and establish themselves as China's new rulers. The official languages of China become both Manchu and Mandarin, but by the 20th century, most Manchus have become integrated with native Han people. By the 21st century, Manchu is natively spoken today by perhaps 20 people in their eighties. If anything, a closely related dialect remains as a local language in the west of China, but thousands of pages of historical documents exist that can barely be read. The only vestiges of Manchu seen by the non-academic are the signs posted at the Forbidden City. How can a language with political, cultural, and economic status just...disappear? And what does that signal for all of the other minority and local languages in China? Edited by zhanglong on 09 June 2011 at 3:30am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| akprocks Senior Member United States Joined 5287 days ago 178 posts - 258 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 3 of 9 09 June 2011 at 5:58am | IP Logged |
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I've been looking on the internet for a while as I am considering to go to Tajikistan with a program next summer. I'm wondering if you know Tajik can you converse with Iranians?
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6583 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 4 of 9 09 June 2011 at 7:06am | IP Logged |
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I'd learn Shanghainese if I were going to spend any significant time in Shanghai, and Tibetan if I were going to spend any significant time in Tibet. Learning them without actually being there is sadly very difficult, as there is very little material in the form of movies, books and other media. Unfortunately, most Chinese don't reason the way I do. The general opinion seems to be that languages related to Mandarin are extremely hard to learn (as opposed to, say, English) and few to none bother to try and learn the local languages when they move to a place within China. With massive migration, the result is that these languages are all dying. They still have a large number of speakers (ok, not Manchu, but the other ones) so they won't die soon, but they'll continuously decrease in number from now on, I suspect.
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| davidwelsh Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5530 days ago 141 posts - 307 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Norwegian, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali, Mandarin | Message 5 of 9 10 June 2011 at 5:26pm | IP Logged |
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I've recently started studying Tibetan seriously, and am spending this summer doing an intensive Tibetan language
summer course at the University of Virginia. My main motivation is to be able to study Buddhist texts written in Tibetan. A massive amount of texts were translated from Sanskrit when Buddhism was transmitted from India to Tibet, and as Buddhism later died out in India many of the original texts were lost, and only exist in Tibetan (or Chinese) translations. I'm going to start off by learning to speak, understand, read and write the modern language and then look more at the classical language. I think the difference between modern and classical Tibetan isn't as big as is the case with many languages. Written Tibetan's quite conservative, with words generally spelled the way they were pronounced a thousand years ago (much like English...) 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4930 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 6 of 9 11 June 2011 at 12:50am | IP Logged |
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David,
That sounds fascinating. What textbook are you using and which of the four language skills do you find the most challenging in learning Tibetan? After I finish my Mandarin and Cantonese curriculum, I will attempt to learn how to read Tibetan, even if at a rudimentary level. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| NickJS Senior Member United Kingdom flickr.com/photos/sg Joined 4960 days ago 264 posts - 334 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 7 of 9 11 June 2011 at 3:50am | IP Logged |
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There are quite a few videos by Laoshu505000 on Yotube on Tibetan and just looking now
there is also a resource video he made on it, so it may be worth checking those videos out for more information on Tibetan. Manchu sounds very interesting though! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| davidwelsh Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5530 days ago 141 posts - 307 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Norwegian, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali, Mandarin | Message 8 of 9 11 June 2011 at 7:18am | IP Logged |
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@zhanglong
I'm using the Manual of Standard Tibetan and Colloquial Tibetan. Colloquial Tibetan's the textbook we'll be using on the course, but it's not really designed for independent study. I'd definitely recommend the Manual though, it's a fantastic book. I also have Translating Buddhism from Tibetan, which is a textbook for Classical Tibetan. I haven't done much with that yet, but it looks good too. Check out the Tibetan and Himalayan Digital Library as well. They've got lots of interesting resources, including a free downloadable dictionary, extra resources for the Manual and loads more. I'd say the most challenging thing is writing. Because there are often several silent, unpronounced letters in a word, you have more to remember. Reading's a bit easier, because even with the unpronounced letters you can still recognise the word and see how to pronounce it. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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