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Learning Classical Chinese | ||
Tags: Mandarin | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| mingzang Newbie Australia Joined 4943 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English | Message 1 of 25 13 May 2011 at 6:47am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello, i am interested in learning classical Chinese as i would like to compare Buddhist texts in Tibetan/Sanskrit/Pali/Chinese as a part of text translation that i am interested in doing in the future. I am based in Australia and i haven't found yet where i can learn Classical Chinese, but i've found a couple of courses in Mandarin. Will initially learning Mandarin be of any use for eventually learning Classical Chinese? I would be grateful for any suggestions.
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| tarojoseph Tetraglot Newbie Hong Kong Joined 5561 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, Japanese, English, Mandarin Studies: German | Message 2 of 25 13 May 2011 at 8:16am | IP Logged | ||
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Being native, I still find lots of problems and difficulties to read classical Chinese. I would say knowledge in Mandarin/modern Chinese would only help no more than 10% to understand the ancient text.
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| jsun Groupie Joined 5084 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes  | Message 3 of 25 13 May 2011 at 8:33am | IP Logged | ||
Your ambition is too high if you don't speak any kind of Chinese languages at all! Learning Mandarin is not good for Classical Chinese, to be honest. Min, Hakka, Cantonese are better Chinese languages for it. Anyway, here's "a new practical primer of literary Chinese". http://literarych.wordpress.com/ I can tell you what book you can buy to compare Chinese character and Indic Buddhist text. But it seems you don't even know any Chinese languages... 
More... Your ambition is kind of impossible to archive. First of all, Mandarin and classical Chinese are as distinct as two written languages. Also, Mandarin doesn't rhyme well in classical text. Thirdly, do you speak Sanskrit, Pali and Tibetan? These are another three languages. Tibetan has another set of alphabet for Sanskrit transcription. Finally, from what I read about Sino-Indic Buddhist book, several kind of Indic fonts were used! I speak Cantonese, Hakka and Mandarin I speak a bit Tibetan and I know how to read Devanagari and some Sanskrit. I don't think I can ever translate things between modern Hindi, modern Tibetan to modern Chinese languages...Not to mention these ancient texts.... Edited by jsun on 13 May 2011 at 8:55am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6581 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 4 of 25 13 May 2011 at 9:34am | IP Logged | ||
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Contrary to the above posters, I find that Mandarin certainly helps me with figuring out Classical Chinese texts. The Modern Standard Mandarin language is when spoken on the street very different from CC, but in more formal writings the similarities start creeping in. A lot of my Mandarin input is through wuxia books and TV series, in which the language is often archaic (my sifu called it "classical vernacular").
Most of the characters in CC have at least similar meanings in MSM (although many have fallen out of use) and CC is usually read with modern pronunciations of characters, not with reconstructed Middle Chinese phonology. The grammar is, however, very different. Learning Mandarin to a basic "ask for directions and talk about the weather" level won't be of much use, but learning it to higher levels, including formal writing, will no doubt be very useful. Will learning MSM enable you to read CC? Of course not, anymore than English will enable you to read German. Will it help? definitely. But the old truth remains, of course: don't learn language A in order to learn language B. Just learn language B. But if you want both MSM and CC, one will certainly help with the other. The above posters might say they have no use of their Chinese languages when reading CC texts, but I guarantee you they understand more of a CC text than someone with no knowledge of Chinese languages will (which is zilch). 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jimbo Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 6293 days ago 469 posts - 642 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French Studies: Japanese, Latin | Message 5 of 25 13 May 2011 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh, it isn't THAT hard. Start with the the Giles translation of
the Three Character Classic and work your way from there. If it interests you and you put in the time, you'll be reading the stuff within a couple of years. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| davidwelsh Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5528 days ago 141 posts - 307 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Norwegian, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, French Studies: Polish, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Pali, Mandarin | Message 6 of 25 13 May 2011 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm planning to learn Classical Chinese too, and I was advised that it would be a good idea to acquire the basics of
Modern Mandarin first. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5084 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 7 of 25 13 May 2011 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | ||
Classical Chinese can be read with any Chinese languages but Mandarin phonology loses many important features that it essentially affects the reception of meaning. And look at his purpose again. " i would like to compare Buddhist texts in Tibetan/Sanskrit/Pali/Chinese as a part of text translation " When the time Buddhism was spread from India to China, the time was Middle Chinese (in term of language). The Chinese transliteration is in the pronunciation of Middle Chinese. His purpose can't be archived without knowing Middle Chinese. I doubt how many people in here have actually read books that compare Chinese and Indian languages in religious context. Also, get yourself an Old and Middle Chinese phonology book and see if you could comprehend. If you want to learn classical Chinese, that's a possible goal. The goal by the OP is quite impossible. I just tell the reality. I read Phagsa-pa -Chinese research book, Old and Middle Chinese phonologies book and I learned Tibetan, Hindi and Sanskrit. And I speak three kinds of Chinese languages. I seriously can't translate old stuff. Edited by jsun on 13 May 2011 at 9:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hampie Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6658 days ago 625 posts - 1009 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Latin, German, Mandarin | Message 8 of 25 13 May 2011 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I studied history of religion, one of our lecturers said that originally there were universities that required
people who studied buddhology to learn Sanskrit, Pali, Tibetan and Classical Chinese during their studies. Really, why would that be unnaciaveable? The professor of Assyriology at my home University knows Akkadian (various dialects), Sumerian, Hittie, can read cuneiform, and yet he speaks German and French - beside Swedish and English. As a hobby it might be too big of a goal, but if it’s an academic career: why not? 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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