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Tomatis Method Revisited | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| FrenchSilkPie Senior Member United States Joined 6618 days ago 125 posts - 130 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 9 of 15 28 November 2006 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I called and they informed me that it costs $195 for the placement tests, and things like that, and then $1,395 for the program.
So it is pricey but I believe it is worth it. I would love to do it, but they also said you should already have tried to learn the language, and actively be studying it before you can try the program. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| alang Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 7222 days ago 563 posts - 757 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 10 of 15 02 March 2007 at 1:37am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well here is an update on the Sound Therapy. First I have to inform you all that there were some days I missed listening to the tapes. Just like missing study times for learning a language. The three hours of obligatory listening gets easier, as other activities can be done while listening.
I have no idea how much of a drawback has happened for missing those days? The positive side is that I believe my hearing seems to be more acute. I listen to the last three tapes on the lowest volume setting on my cassette player. I can still hear the music just fine instead of hearing nothing. When I listen to some tones in Mandarin I do notice them , but only if I am paying attention intently. Before I did not really notice the tones. Note that it is still not coming easily to me. The presumed other benefits like less sleep, more energy, and better concentration I don't seem to notice any change. I will keep listening to the tapes, but it is early if I will purchase advance cassettes. This seems to resemble drills on opening up the ear. Like listening to specific tones over and over until your ear opens up. I bought a perfect and relative pitch ear training course. The course could just be as effective, but I haven't used the course yet. Well, that is my experience from the Sound Therapy tapes. I do like the product, but for the language learners first and foremost the language has to be studied. I don't believe there is a lazy way of learning by getting something for nothing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6910 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 15 14 January 2008 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I recently read the book "Superlearning 2000" (by Sheila Ostrander) and found the chapter about languages (and the Tomatis method) particularly interesting. Excerpt here (from page 297):
They get used to listening to those frequencies that are part of the mother tongue. French people, who are used to listening in a narrow range 800-1000 Hz, have more difficulty learning English from British instructors than from Americans. That's because British people speak English in the 2000-12000 Hz range, while Americans speak in the 750-3000 Hz range (Even some Americans can have trouble understanding English spoken with certain British accents!) The Italian ear can "hear" frequencies between 2000 and 4000 Hz. The Russian ear is tuned to a frequency range from the lowest to the highest frequencies that the human ear can normally perceive. "It has always been said that the Slavs 'have an ear' for language,", obseverves Dr Bancroft, "and Tomatis' research proves this statistically." You have to hear first in order to be able to reproduce the sounds. "His works shows," says Bancroft, "that a native English speaker could be 'deaf' to the subtleties of French vowels, all packed into a narrow frequency range." While I believe in the Tomatis motto "You cannot reproduce a sound you cannot hear", I found the stuff about languages and frequency ranges a bit surprising. Have you thought of that? Did anyone here try the Electronic Ear? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7029 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 12 of 15 14 January 2008 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I believe that you cannot pronounce what you cannot hear. I do not believe it relates to frequencies. I do not believe that Russians have an easier time pronouncing new sounds. Here is why.
1) Slavs usually have heavier accents in English than say, Swedes or German speakers, as a generalization. Just listen to hockey players in the NHL being interviewed. 2) Pronunciation ability varies widely within national groups. I know Japanese and Chinese people with flawless pronunciation who have never left home. They are relatively few, but they exist, so I doubt that frequency is the issue. 3) Many people can pronounce sounds on their own but not in sentences. They will often "over" compensate. Germans will say "thith sing is wery vunderful" , the French will "'ardly hever" get the "h" right and so on. 4) Often the pronunciation problems are conditioned by the writing system in their own language, like kana for the Japanese, Italians who always say "walked" with emphasis on the "ed", Slavs and others who pronounced "word" to "rhyme with "ward" etc. 5) The inability of Hunanese Chinese to separate "n" from "l", Cantonese or latinos to pronounce a final consonant, or the exaggerated final consonant of Northern Chinese...I just do not see how all of this relates to sound frequencies. The issue is how to get people to notice, to hear what they are hearing, and second of all to get them to relax and reproduce what they hear. Any amount of concentrated effort will produce some results, and so will this Tomatis treatment. I believe there are cheaper and more natural ways to achieve the same results. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| flyboy Newbie Canada Joined 5003 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English* | Message 13 of 15 16 March 2011 at 3:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Just thought I would wake up this thread to see if any others have tried the Tomatis method. My understanding is
that the Rafael Joudry people do not utilize the headset with the bone conduction device which is part of the process. I would think that any software such as Garage Band with an EQ could do what the programs offered by the various people such as Rafael and Tomatis or Enlisten do. Also of course EQ's available for sound people such as muscians would do the trick. Any thoughts or comments??? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5566 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 14 of 15 16 March 2011 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The Speedlingua software uses something like this method - before doing the normal accent reduction techniques you have to spend 15 minutes per session listening to music set at a frequency that is apparently for the language you are learning.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5419 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 15 of 15 16 March 2011 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This seems a bit of an ill thought out theory to me and comes off at first glance as a
bit pseudo-science if you ask me, but let's deconstruct it and see how it fares.
Okay, so the sounds are filtered when in the womb, this is of course true, but it would have the effect of actually altering what frequencies are heard from a language so the brain will get information which doesn't paint a full picture of what the language really sounds like since what you will get is mainly lower frequencies being heard by the baby. The baby will then hear more of the intonation and rhythm of the language rather than the actual sounds produced. Perhaps this might be an initial aid as the babies become accustomed to the rhythm and intonation of a language first, something a lot of adult learners have trouble with in speaking foreign languages but lets see if this holds up to more lengthy analysis.
Okay, so here a mention is made to the fact that kids from a baby up until puberty can become fluent easily and that kids can more easily achieve a native accent and perfect pronunciation. This is already a contradiction of the main theory. If kids up to the time they reach puberty are finding they can easily learn a foreign language including acquiring a good accent and pronunciation then how can it be rooted in the time spent in the womb considering they won't have been listening to the foreign languages extensively in the womb?
I doubt that accents and mimmicry are really "natural" genetic based talents. Musicians train how they listen to music over many years and get better at distinguishing different parts of the music they are listening to and can actively describe and understand what individual instruments in an orchestra are doing or even transcribe the music onto sheet music. This can be done without having "absolute pitch" where you can tell what a note is just by hearing it as a reference note can be given and a musician who has worked hard at listening analysis can then transcribe whatever they hear. The frequencies heard in music will vary greatly compared to the frequencies heard from language, especially in the womb, yet this fact doesn't stop people developing fantastic ears for music or analysis of sound in general, especially for music producers who deal with things far more complex than simply analysing the sound of a language. I think the problem that might be the case (though I may be wrong) is that a lot of people don't develop analytical listening skills and get overwhelmed by the complete picture of the sound of a foreign language in terms of rhythm, stress, intonation and pronunciation and don't learn to think about each part separately and learn how they all connect together. As a baby you have no point of reference in language so you just need to get used the language you hear and deal with it and you don't get stuck in a habit of processing sounds in a certain way in accordance with the general sound rules of your native language. People get so stuck in the habits of their own language that they usually just approximate the sounds they hear; A) because their linguistic motor functions are so used to making the sounds of their language and B) they haven't developed the skills to analyse the sounds of the foreign language and try to relate the sounds they hear to ones they are used to. What the Tomatis Method might do is help alter the sound of a language so that certain parts of it, rhythm and intonation, become more pronounced and by first getting used to that then bringing the rest of the parts of what makes the sound of the language into play, it becomes much easier to digest and understand, yet this is something that can be taught without the need of simulating the sound of language heard through the womb. If people are taught how to analyse the sound of language then they can become self sufficient and don't need to rely on devices to make life easier which are going to cost much more than just learning to train your ear. Edited by jazzboy.bebop on 16 March 2011 at 4:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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