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When someone insults your language. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tritone Senior Member United States reflectionsinpo Joined 6124 days ago 246 posts - 385 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, French | Message 65 of 76 09 January 2011 at 2:45am | IP Logged | |||||
This is common from everybody. I've heard this several times from Spanish and portuguese speakers, as well as the french (who have perhaps the most irrational reverence for their language of all the people on the planet). I'm not 'offended' by it, but rather bothered because it's so ignorant. None of them speak English well, and since they can't manage to express their ideas in English, they reason that it's because English is inherently not "expressive". They don't realize that it's their knowledge of English that's lacking and not the language itself. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5089 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 66 of 76 09 January 2011 at 10:57am | IP Logged | |||||
So you wanna hear it? OK, let you know. Chinese call Korean alphabet "Mars language" 火星文. Most of them think that Korean alphabet has no class. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5089 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 67 of 76 09 January 2011 at 11:05am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, there're lots of insults I've encountered.
"Cantonese, Thai and Vietnamese are ugly languages". "Cantonese has xyz tones" but people who comment aren't familiar with it. "Cantonese is loud." People insult because they don't know about this particular language. I admit that I could not stand Vietnamese. But after I found that Vietnamese actually preserve many features of Old Chinese phonology, I start to like it. I admit that I had prejudice about Korean alphabet like other Chinese people do. After I found out that Korean alphabets are of indic origin, I start to think it's as good as Chinese character. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| robsolete Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5389 days ago 191 posts - 428 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 68 of 76 13 January 2011 at 3:01am | IP Logged | |||||
This is a great observation. More "advanced" societies will usually have a larger lexicon (since they have more stuff to give names to) but I think that a lot of the "dominant" languages end up becoming somewhat simpler than smaller regional languages. This makes sense in a way, because when a society spreads itself over a large area, it has to become simpler in a way in order to maintain a "core" of communication amongst many different groups of people. I think English is a great example of this: it essentially lost its Germanic case endings and other features as it grew. It used to have tons of variants--some nearly unintelligible to each other--within England, but these became smoothed out as the English nation became centralized under the monarchy and there was more intraregional transit and trade. Today for all that "proper" folk decry Netspeak, it certainly shows that as more people are using English as a medium for communication, the *spelling* rules are, organically, finding simpler ways of expressing themselves. do u no wut i meen? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 69 of 76 14 January 2011 at 4:00am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm quite convinced that this is true in the Guangdong area. Living in Foshan for ten months, I repeatedly made the observation that Cantonese is louder than Mandarin. I'm not sure about HK Cantonese, but I've heard one teacher of Cantonese to recommend to the learner "bring out your inner fishwife". Edit: On the original topic, I don't think I've heard anyone insult Swedish, but I get quite uncomfortable when native speakers of the language I'm studying are insulting their own language. This happens from time to time with Cantonese. Edited by Ari on 14 January 2011 at 4:02am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5089 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 70 of 76 14 January 2011 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
Cantonese has more characters with voiceless velar and voiceless glottal consonants so I guess this maybe the reason of loudness. 家 Cantonese: ka Mandarin: jia 傾 Cantonese: king Mandarin: qing 氣 Cantonese: hei Mandarin: qi Also, loudness can be regarded as Cantonese culture but Westerner don't appreciate it. I read a book that was about 19th century China and it said that Westerner hated lion dancing and dragon boat racing because it was so loud and noisy. But Cantonese people believe that noise can scare away evil spirit. Go to any Cantonese restaurant. it is so much louder than Western restaurants. Many Cantonese columnists criticise our "noisy" culture. Nowadays, "quietness" is equivalent to "civilizedness". And even other non-Cantonese Chinese use the standard of Westerners to judge the Cantonese culture. Edited by jsun on 14 January 2011 at 10:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| HKCanadian Diglot Newbie Canada Joined 5068 days ago 11 posts - 12 votes Speaks: English, Cantonese* Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 71 of 76 15 January 2011 at 4:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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I do get slightly offended when non-speakers insult Cantonese, but I'm the most offended when native Mandarin speakers who don't speak Cantonese insult it. Or worse, I'm more offended when they walk around Hong Kong refusing to learn a few Cantonese phrases, speak Mandarin to everyone they encounter and then get insulted when someone tells them they don't speak Mandarin.
Sorry to get sidetracked there... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 72 of 76 15 January 2011 at 4:56am | IP Logged | |||||
Just a couple of hours after writing this post I had a conversation with a native Cantonese-speaking language teacher (she teaches Mandarin and English). She claimed that Cantonese was more difficult to learn than Mandarin, a claim very common amongst native speakers (me, having had to learn both, agree only insofar as that Cantonese has so few textbooks and so few available written texts). The reason for the claim was that Cantonese "has no grammar", also a not uncommon claim, even more silly in the light of Cantonese grammar being almost identical to Mandarin grammar. She had of course never had to study Cantonese grammar, being a native speaker, whereas Mandarin grammar is learned in school. Based on this, many speakers conclude that Cantonese grammar doesn't exist. Finally, she claimed that Cantonese has no culture. All in all, the conversation made me sad. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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