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Wenzhou Dialect | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 9 of 27 07 September 2010 at 5:35am | IP Logged | |||||
Some sources claim that Cantonese has nine tones. In reality it has only six. The three extra tones come from the fact that someone thought syllables ending in a stop consonant should have their own tones, even though they're at the same level as the 1st, 3rd and 6th tones. I don't know if the same applies to Wenzhouhua. If it doesn't, and the eight tones are really all different, it's the most I've heard of in any tonal language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6850 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 10 of 27 07 September 2010 at 7:51am | IP Logged | |||||
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8 tones is entirely believable. Middle Chinese had four tones (平、上、去、入). Many modern Chinese languages further distinguish yang 陽 and yin 陰 for each tone, so you would have 陽平, 陰平, 陽上, 陰上, etc. Cantonese has both a high and low 陰入 tone (上陰入 and 下陰入), making 9 altogether.
The tone issue in Chinese languages is more complicated than just what the tones sound like, so it isn't really correct to say there are only six tones. The tones in the modern Chinese languages have descended from Middle Chinese tones, and so that must be taken into consideration. EDIT: interestingly, Pinghua 平話, spoken in Guangxi 廣西 contains 10 tones. There are four entering tones！ Edited by OneEye on 07 September 2010 at 7:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Asiafeverr Diglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6342 days ago 346 posts - 431 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese, German | Message 11 of 27 07 September 2010 at 10:06am | IP Logged | |||||
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Shanghainese has so many tones I didn't even bother counting how many it has. I simply listen to words
and try to repeat them as accurately as possible; I end up naturally associating the tone to the word. Memorizing the actual tone is easier for Cantonese and Mandarin where the tones are 'easy' but Shanghainese, and I believe Wenzhounese too, has tones that exist in neither. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 12 of 27 07 September 2010 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
According to Wikipedia, five. However, it seems that tone is largely dependent on the actual sound of the syllable: "Yang tones are only found with voiced initials (b d ɡ z v dʑ ʑ m n ɲ ŋ l j w ɦ), while the yin tones are only found with voiceless initials. The ru tones are abrupt, and describe those rimes which end in a glottal stop /ʔ/. That is, both the yin-yang distinction and the ru tones are allophonic (dependent on syllabic structure); the Shanghai dialect has only a two-way phonemic tone contrast, falling vs rising, and then only in open syllables with voiceless initials." 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| minus273 Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5765 days ago 288 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Ancient Greek, Tibetan | Message 13 of 27 08 September 2010 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
No. None of the Wenzhou tones are correlated with coda, though the two Shang tones are associated with a kind of creaky voice. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 14 of 27 09 September 2010 at 3:20am | IP Logged | |||||
That's the most awesome thing I read today. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5696 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 15 of 27 09 September 2010 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
Believe it or not, it's actual terminology: Creaky Voice It's also commonly called laryngealisation, and it's present in the Danish stød so it's not unique. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Asiafeverr Diglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6342 days ago 346 posts - 431 votes 1 sounds Speaks: French*, English Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese, German | Message 16 of 27 13 September 2010 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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For anyone interested, I am currently building a Wenzhounese Anki deck with the scarce
mp3s I managed to find online. Each card has standard Chinese on one side and 温州话 script with audio on the other side. I am not too sure how to share it online since I do not think Anki can share audio decks. Any suggestions welcome. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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