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僕 （ぼく） not so masculine after all? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| M. Medialis Diglot TAC 2010 Winner Senior Member Sweden Joined 6357 days ago 397 posts - 508 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Russian, Japanese, French | Message 1 of 9 26 March 2011 at 12:50pm | IP Logged |
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I've read it so many times on the web, that 僕 is a very masculine personal pronoun that's used by men only.
Now I've encountered quite a few pop songs, sung by girlish J-pop girls where they use the word ぼく (and ぼくら). Female radio hosts can use it to. What's going on here? I'm beginning to suspect that the masculinity rule is just a way of helping foreigners not to embarass themselves by using the word improperly.. (?) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Segata Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 5171 days ago 64 posts - 125 votes Speaks: German*, Japanese, English Studies: Korean, Esperanto | Message 2 of 9 26 March 2011 at 2:36pm | IP Logged |
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For your reading pleasure!
Maybe I'm just being unprogressive here, but.. to me, girls who talk like this don't sound like real people, they sound like Anime characters. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6949 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 3 of 9 27 March 2011 at 4:21am | IP Logged |
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Some girls even use "ore"! It's a pretty recent trend, I believe. I'm 24, and girls my
age don't do use them (or maybe it's extremely rare), but it might be more common among current high school-aged girls. I agree with Segata's opinion :) The girls who use it are not doing so naturally and unthinkingly, but are telling the world, "Hey, look how cute and unique I am! Be endeared to me!" Edited by Lucky Charms on 27 March 2011 at 4:26am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| JaKorChi Newbie Australia Joined 5059 days ago 18 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean, Afrikaans, Mandarin | Message 4 of 9 27 March 2011 at 8:59am | IP Logged |
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I actually asked a Japanese person about this the other day.
"Boku" and "Ore" are still manly ("Ore" being the more manly of the two), but J-Pop starts like Ayumi Hamasaki will often refer to themselves as "Boku" to be unique and sound cute like they're trying to fit in with the guys. So it's still a manly way of saying "I", it's just that attention-seeking girls like to say it too. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5178 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 5 of 9 27 March 2011 at 12:52pm | IP Logged |
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I want to add I think it's rather boyish than manly.
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| unzum Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom soyouwanttolearnalan Joined 6914 days ago 371 posts - 478 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin | Message 6 of 9 19 April 2011 at 6:15pm | IP Logged |
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I think using Boku or Ore in songs might have something more to do with a two syllable word fitting the song better than a three syllable word. This is what I've heard from Japanese friends of mine anyway. Also, it's not just J-pop that does this, I've also heard Enka and other old songs using Boku.
Also agree with clumsy that Boku is more boyish (like in a tomboy way) than manly. Ore is the more masculine of the two. In my opinion this a recent trend and probably just a natural effect of progression. Compare it with young western women nowadays using swear words and acting more masculine. I wonder whether there's any connection between women using 僕 and 俺 and 肉食系女子? Edited by unzum on 19 April 2011 at 6:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5828 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French | Message 7 of 9 19 April 2011 at 8:03pm | IP Logged |
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With regards to the difference between boku and ore, I had gotten the impression that ore is more youthful than
boku, and carries with it a sort of different, more aggressive masculinity, where is boku is more simply generic masculinity. The exception to the rule of course is that boku is also used a lot by young children- ore doesn't come into the picture until around puberty, I think? I may be wrong. With regards to girls using them, you can find some more info about this by googling "bokuko" and "oreonna" which are what you call girls who use these terms. In general, in anime these girls are usually either tomboys or intentionally gender ambiguous/androgynous. In real life it's not as clear cut, but I would hesitate to say it's always attention-seeking. It may be done by girls who prefer hanging out with guys or want to have a tomboyish image, as well. I haven't been able to find any information about its use by japanese girls who identify as male, gender neutral, or gender switchers, but this is mostly because it's hard to find ANY information about non-heteronormative people in Japan that isn't incredibly simplistic and othering. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6472 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian | Message 8 of 9 28 April 2011 at 7:03am | IP Logged |
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In the case of a song, it could also be that the singer is "in character" as a male. (I don't know if this is often actually the case; it's just a hypothesis.) I imagine that a woman would take on the role of a man much more readily than the reverse -- but such is the case in the Western world too.
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