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Education is hindering my education | ||
Tags: School Education | College/University | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| TMO138 Newbie United States Joined 4939 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes | Message 49 of 70 18 May 2011 at 12:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh God, I agree completely with the OP. In fact, I came out of lurking and signed in just because of this issue. Take for instance the fact that I was in AP Spanish. In order to get to AP Spanish, you are supposed to go through Spanish I/II/III and sometimes IV. In other words, you are supposed to be somewhat familiar with the language before you enroll. This was simply not the case. In our whole class, I will lax the limits and say that maybe there were 6 people capable of speaking the language out of a class of twenty-something, and two of them were native speakers. The rest of the kids there were hopeless with even the present tense. In other words, the class was essentially a joke/waste of time. This is only a sample. School was like that in general. I would generally say that high schoolers graduate with the knowledge they were supposed to possess in middle school. I could whine on forever, but for the sake of brevity I'll just conclude here.
I am so glad that I am finally leaving this failure of an 'educational' system officially as of next week. A little bit like the OP, I also have some college credit (from my AP exams) which I will use to try and graduate as early as possible. To the OP or anyone in our dilemma, I'd suggest Youtubing John Taylor Gatto or just reading any of his books. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 50 of 70 18 May 2011 at 1:19am | IP Logged | |||||
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Luai_lashire: Been there, done that, survived. Now I still have to learn how to deal with a world that hasn't changed, and it would have been easier if I had had the chance to learn it the first time around.
Akao, you mentioned in another thread that you find grammar the hardest part to learn. You said "simple grammar" was easier for you and I read that as "grammar that is similar to English grammar", which I think is a fair assumption. You also mentioned burning yourself out over learning two languages at once. Those and some other tidbits remind me very much of something I am guilty of: I tend to pick up a language, study it intensively and with progress that many people on here wouldn't find anything special, but that makes my surroundings think I'm a kind of brainiac - and then I burn myself out and drop it. I find vocabulary very easy to acquire, I get the gist of things fast, and I find alien grammatical concepts and production difficult because I don't give myself the time to practice enough once I think I have understood something. Language classes actually help with that, because I attend them even when I feel exhausted and couldn't bring myself to study on my own; and because the coursework is given I can limit myself to doing that well and maybe some enjoyable additions. This means that during the course of one day or one week, I learn a lot less than I could, but in the long run I learn a lot more because I keep on doing it. So, being slowed down can actually be more sustainable. Of course it is frustrating that you feel you're wasting your time, but the one thing you can do about it is to make that time meaningful to you. If there is another student slowing the class down, you can help her/him. (Maybe. It works for me.) If exercises are boring or you're forced to wait until everyone has finished, be creative about them. Use your time to think about why the teacher explains in a certain way, why another student makes certain mistakes (and why you yourself make certain mistakes), rather than being bored because somebody else is talking about something you know already. It's kind of entertaining and a nice training for whenever you need to put yourself in the shoes of someone else. Most people I know didn't know what they wanted to study right after school, changed their major, got a job with no connection to their degree - it just happens. You have the priviledge to be able to do the work that is expected of you faster than most other people, which means that you have more free time to try out things, to figure out if you like something or don't. And you probably have the capacity to actually learn most professions that you set your mind to learning. Edited by Bao on 18 May 2011 at 1:45am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 Li Fei Pro Member United States Joined 5123 days ago 147 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 51 of 70 18 May 2011 at 1:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Wow, I love the idea of five gifted students in an old mansion! I'm a YA writer and would love to steal that idea.
I agree with Bao that formal classes can keep you plodding along steadily when you might not have maintained motivation on your own. With that said, though, I also understand how it feels to be so far ahead in school and so very bored in class. I find it hard to pursue my own thoughts in a stultifying meeting or class, and hence get very frustrated. This stuff still happens to gifted adults, even in intellectual professions like academia. I actually think it's because we are only interested in and bright about certain things (that's my situation anyway) and when the discussion moves on to boring stuff (simple points of grammar, mandatory paperwork, etc.) it's hard to bear. I try to remind myself that the boring-to-me stuff is important to someone, but it doesn't help all that much with the frustration. The point being . . . hang in there, you have a lot of company around here. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5585 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 52 of 70 18 May 2011 at 4:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm impressed to say the least, and I can openly speak for the LACK of education from US public schools.
I attend Penn State for Aerospace Engineering. I'm a smart kid (not unbelievably smart) but I had very good grades in high school and assumed Aerospace wouldn't be too difficult for me. Needless to say, I GOT MY ASS KICKED. Yes, education is hindering your education. I was YEARS behind other students in math and physics, to the point where I had to teach myself nearly everything just to catch up and pass/do acceptably well in college. It was a very rude awakening. To the point where I was sleeping 4 hours, would wake up and do physics and calculus in the middle of the night, or not go to sleep until I understood something. It was insane. I love it though. As for languages in college, it's a complete joke. I'm minoring in Spanish, I figured college level Spanish would be difficult; a challenge. I didn't study for ONE exam, or at all. I missed one point THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm not being cocky, it was a joke. My Spanish is NOT perfect. Fluent? to an extent. No where near some people that have studied as long as I have, and I've only spoken to natives 3 times in my 5 years of study. I was deeply disappointed with every second of the Spanish class. I wanted to learn and progress. I wanted it to be so hard that I would be lost, scared, and have to fight my way to learn. I took AP Spanish and got an A, but after taking "college Spanish" I want to find the hardest class that I can, but it's nearly impossible. College is the rudest awakening I've ever had. Sure my major isn't the toughest, but it's college itself that teaches you to sink or swim. It consolidated every mistake I've ever made in high school and throughout my educational life. Learning to understand is EVERYTHING. Do I blame my teachers? Absolutely. The best teachers I've ever had are ones that didn't care so much for grades, but understanding. The ones that cared about their job and their students. Something that's rare in high schools, and even MORE rare in college. As an example, I took calculus in high school, just basic calc. I got a high B overall, and went to college to take calculus I. I did so poorly to the point where I had to take it over again, and chose a different teacher. Thank God I did, I loved every second of that class and I was very lucky. I enjoyed coming to class, understanding what I learned, and not only asking the teacher questions about math, but she would talk to everyone about anything. When the teacher cares so do you. I can speak for that first hand. You don't sound like a brat at all, and to be honest it's people like you that I find extremely impressive. The type I'd love to be friends with. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and when you're around smart people, you become smarter. I understood physics conceptually without mistake, but mathematically, I couldn't explain it. So I made friends that could do the opposite, and that's how I studied. I know this post is "all over the place" but having been through my first year of school, I couldn't be more disappointed with the schooling I had, and it's only fair that I warn you ahead of time to NOT PUT UP WITH IT, and get whatever help you need, or challenge yourself as much as you want. Going to a sub-par school and having poor teachers most of the time might be the biggest regret of my life so far, but it's not something I can control. I had the secret dream of changing the way languages are taught in American schools. It sure as hell wouldn't be the way I had to learn. Edited by datsunking1 on 18 May 2011 at 4:58am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6379 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 53 of 70 18 May 2011 at 5:48am | IP Logged | |||||
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Jordan, I'll just want to point out that the class on the subject that you devoted tons of extra time to during high school was the class that you did well in and the other one that you didn't you had a hard time catching up when you reached college. It's not that surprising and is probably somewhat unrelated to how good your teachers were. I think it just shows that yes a teacher can be a huge help but at the end of the day most learning comes from self-motivation.
Anyway, there are probably a lot of math geeks running around saying how hard a time they had in Spanish class! Edited by newyorkeric on 18 May 2011 at 5:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| kmart Senior Member Australia Joined 6124 days ago 194 posts - 400 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 54 of 70 18 May 2011 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
What the ??? How do you get 130% in a math test? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| dmaddock1 Senior Member United States Joined 5433 days ago 174 posts - 426 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Esperanto, Latin, Ancient Greek | Message 55 of 70 18 May 2011 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
Presumably with extra credit questions, which are a pretty common practice in US schools.
I understand the sentiment, but don't take this too far. Surely, some deserve it; most don't. Most are also frustrated with the status quo, but like you, don't feel that it is something they can control. I feel compelled to "warn" you guys a little that the stuff that annoys you about your education is not limited to US schools, or even schools in general. This is how life is. Many, many people float through life and don't care: about education, about bettering themselves or their place in life, about doing work to be proud of, about what's convenient for you, etc. They work the jobs they do because they have to (or at least they think that they have to). Of course, outside of school you can often avoid these people since you can better exercise your freedom of association, but not always. (Ever read the comic strip Dilbert or seen The Office? It's funny because it's true...) My unsolicited advice is to learn to work around these people without resentment and, although they are common, live life as though they are not. It is very easy for this resentment to turn into an unhealthy elitism. I know this because I suffer from it. My introversion makes me a naturally solitary person, but I also find meeting new people a chore because their lack of intellectual depth so often disappoints me. But, I sometimes find this bias of mine is quite wrong and people who I've subconsciously judged are incredibly interesting. Different from me perhaps, but valid. Such an incident happened to me last week when traveling in Holland for work. A scruffy Norwegian gentleman at another table who I'd noticed had 3 beers during a weekday lunch interrupted my conversation while I was trying to make a point. My first thought was "oh god, here we go..." but he was very well-educated and had lived an amazing life. The best conversation I've had with a stranger in years. Schools are keyed to mediocrity because most people are mediocre. I know that word typically has a negative connotation, especially in the US where we are always taught how special everyone is (special just like everyone else), but I don't mean it that way. That's just the definition of the word: average, typical. Just don't take it as an excuse to be mediocre yourself, but don't hold it against anyone who is either. d. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Declan1991 Tetraglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6439 days ago 233 posts - 359 votes Speaks: English*, German, Irish, French | Message 56 of 70 18 May 2011 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
And while some bits of the Irish education system are lacking, overall, it really is good provided you don't have the misfortune to have a selection of bad teachers. However, from what I've heard (here and elsewhere), the American system seems ridiculous! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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