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Percentage of understanding | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 1 of 25 22 May 2011 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I regularly read posts where people claim they understand percentage X of their target language, either spoken or written. Typically, it's something along the lines of "I can understand 90% of spoken French." I know this is somewhat impressionistic, but I've always wondered how people arrive at these figures. Is it matter of counting the words you don't understand relative to those you do? Are some words more important than others? I ask this question because I notice that there are situations where one can simply pass over things you don't fully grasp, especially in spoken conversation, and others where a word or expression is so central to the overall meaning that I feel nearly at a complete loss. Let me give an example. I came across the following passage by John Grisham in a recent novel, Playing for Pizza, where he is describing an American-style football game:
"The only strategy to offset quickness is misdirection, and the offense suddenly had a different look. Backs in motion, three receivers on one side, two tight ends, new plays, and new formations. Under center, in the wishbone, Rick faked to Franco, turned upfield, then flipped to Giancarlo just as Maschi hit him low. A perfect option, and Giancarlo sprinted for eleven yards. From the shotgun, another naked bootleg and Rick ran out of bounds." How much of this did I understand at first reading? I had an overall gist of what was happening, but I'm not a connaisseur of American football. The words are all familiar except their usage is particular to football. Some terms are totally meaningless to me. What are "tight end", "shotgun", "wishbone" or "naked bootleg"? With help of some glossaries of football terminology, I figured it all out and enjoyed reading the same passage a second time around because I could now visualize what was happening. Did my understanding go from 75% to 100%? How could one calculate this? Any ideas? Edited by s_allard on 22 May 2011 at 8:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 2 of 25 22 May 2011 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have often wondered the same thing. I often suspect that people overestimate their own abilities - or even deliberately do not tell the truth. I regularly go to international meetings, and notice that even though I majored in English, speak it fairly well and use English every day, there are still times when I do not catch the content during the meetings. It can be a question of a particular dialect or accent, mumbling, or like in your example, familiar words used in an unfamiliar context or simply that the topic bores me to tears (I know a lot of people who think technical railway projects and their corresponding EU-legislation is really exciting, but sadly I am not one of them).
When I then meet Norwegians who have only had English at high school, and who go abroad twice a year, or Spaniards whose English is hardly understandable, claim that they understand absolutely everything when listening to conferences and lectures on technical and political topics - I get a tad suspicious. As to how to calculate the percentage of what you hear or read, I do not think you can avoid just giving your own impression. I would be one of those persons saying I understand 90-95% of spoken French - depending on the subject. Am I right - I do not know. But it would be as close as I could get to giving a meaningful answer. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Declan1991 Tetraglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6439 days ago 233 posts - 359 votes Speaks: English*, German, Irish, French | Message 3 of 25 23 May 2011 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think you can at all. Such descriptions I've always found fraught with unreality. I do find things like, "I can read such and such a book, and understand the gist", because that's not really as subjective. For example, I know I can read Das Parfüm and understand the plot, but lots of the finer detail goes over my head. Equally so, although I can write quite detailed essays and hold perfectly normal day-to-day conversation in Irish without difficulty (well, could, but a day in a Gaeltacht and I wouldn't be so hesitant, I just haven't spoken much Irish recently), I know well that literature in Irish is more of a challenge because of dialectal difficulties. But for either of those languages, can I give a percentage? Absolutely not! I happen to know some police terminology in German, political terminology in Irish, so I'll understand slightly more of those sorts of topics than sport etc.
And, since I know nothing of American Football, that paragraph might as well be in Greek. Yes, I know the general idea and a rough idea of what everyone is doing at each time, but I haven't a clue as to the tactics etc. Equally so, any "jock" that understands that no problem, won't know what I'm on about when I say that someone caught the sliotar in the paw and after losing his hurley, hand-passed it over the bar. Now, that's deliberately casual and unusual, but it's not completely unheard of to have "the paw" for one's hand, and more straight-forward, sliotar is straight from Irish, and hurley is unique to Ireland. Also, I know of no sport but Gaelic Football and Hurling that have a "hand-pass", so the same applies. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4949 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 4 of 25 23 May 2011 at 1:56am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, maybe you all are comparing apples to oranges. That said, I don't know how other people arrive at percentages of understanding. If they are like me, they are very rough estimates. I think I can catch 50-60% of non-topic specific German converations word for word, another 20-30% the jist of the topic, and maybe 10-15% of a spoken sentence still completely eludes me but it's increasingly rare and usually because I'm not paying full attention. If I'm watching a family movie, I noticed I can understand much more than if there is a court scene, for example.
To me, % of vocabulary understood and % of spoken conversation understood are different things. Vocabulary knowledge helps the understanding of spoken conversation from an early stage, but only when you are closer to mastering the language can the spoken conversation do the opposite (help you understand vocabulary). Thus, in your football reference, they are using words you may know in a jargon. I'm not too concerned with jargon, even in my native languages. Just because I go to a minerology conference in English or Spanish and find 50% of what they talk about incomprehensible, it doesn't mean I overestimated the fact I am a native speaker. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5649 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 5 of 25 23 May 2011 at 3:15am | IP Logged | ||
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It's called a rough estimate. It's not that big of a deal for someone to say they roughly understand X% of what they're watching or what they're reading.
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 6 of 25 23 May 2011 at 3:54am | IP Logged | ||
I certainly agree that it's not a big deal. I would even suggest that it's meaningless precisely because it is so rough. Why even give a percentage, which is a precise figure? I guess one could say something like "I can understand 80% of a Spanish movie, give or take 20%." But that probably doesn't mean anything either. It's probably more a question of a feel-good figure. Most people wouldn't hesitate to put down 90% comprehension if they felt quite confident in their skill. But I doubt most people would write that they have a 15% comprehension level. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| wv girl Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5239 days ago 174 posts - 330 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish | Message 7 of 25 23 May 2011 at 8:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I had to take the Praxis test here in the US to certify to teach. They had listening and reading sections in your target
language where you choose the correct response on a multiple choice exam. It's not perfect, but gives you some idea of how much you really understand. Of course, you could always be a good guesser, as there are a limited number of responses to choose from. It's been a while since I took the tests, but I know that my scores reflected pretty much my own estimation of my abilities. My reading skills were very good in both languages, stronger in French, while listening comprehension was better in French ... no surprise there! As others have mentioned, vocabulary specific to certain subjects can trip me up. The sports vocab. in the example is meaningless to me, even though English is my native language! Sometimes, while watching medical/legal programs on TV in English, I lament the fact that I just wouldn't have the vocab. to understand it well in French/Spanish. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5308 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 8 of 25 23 May 2011 at 9:46am | IP Logged | ||
Well, the numbers "90%" etc aren't very exact, but it's much clearer than "gist". I'm sure my "gist" would be different from your "gist", but my "90%" will always be similar to your "90%". So "90%" is probably better for communication. I won't worry when people say they understand 90% of something. I might start thinking when they say 91%. Edited by smallwhite on 23 May 2011 at 9:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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