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Critical learning period debate settled | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5434 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 1 of 49 26 May 2011 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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The so-called Critical Period hypothesis for language learning comes up regularly in our debates here at HTLAL. The following video on the ability of babies to discriminate sounds at a very early age contains some striking evidence that pretty much proves the existence of a critical period for mastering a phonological system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2XBIkHW954&feature=player_em bedded My own take is that this confirms what we have always observed. Past the age of puberty, it becomes very difficult to acquire native-like pronunciation in foreign languages. Note that we are not talking about reading, writing, grammar or vocabulary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gon-no-suke Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6438 days ago 156 posts - 191 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Japanese, EnglishC2 Studies: Korean, Malay, Swahili | Message 2 of 49 26 May 2011 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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It is a very interesting video, but I think it is about something else. The experiment shows that the infant brain starts to optimize recognition of sounds - mapping different sound ranges to the phonemes of their native language (something like an attractor network). They are rewiring (dewiring?) their brain for the task at hand, and in a couple of months the brain is specialized and new sounds are ignored. However, I can't see anything in this study that shows adults can't remap their neural circuits to recognize new sounds. I suspect most polyglots are better at this remapping than monolinguals, due to ample practice.
The interesting part of the study is where she shows that the infants need a live person talking to pick up new sounds. I wonder if this applies to adults as well? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 4 of 49 26 May 2011 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | ||
I don't think I've seen anyone on this forum or anywhere else doubt that. That's not what the critical period debate is about. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ygangerg Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5322 days ago 100 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, French Studies: German | Message 5 of 49 26 May 2011 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | ||
s_allard was referring to pronunciation, not recognition. This issue is the ability to produce the language like a native speaker. I'm sure we all know people who can't shake their foreign accents, but who can recognize the sounds they hear in the language. Edited by Ygangerg on 26 May 2011 at 3:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ygangerg Pentaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5322 days ago 100 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, French Studies: German | Message 6 of 49 26 May 2011 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ari: That is indeed actually what the critical period hypothesis is about. It treats the issues of acquisition of syntax, morphology, sound recognition, sound production, and more.
All s_allard is saying is that "Look, acquisition of native-like pronunciation seems to have a critical period, mentioning nothing of grammar or vocabulary or the rest." He's right on. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 7 of 49 26 May 2011 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | ||
So how does showing that the critical period hypothesis is correct in part mean that the discussion is "settled"? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5312 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 8 of 49 26 May 2011 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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What if we get the same Taiwanese lady to talk to an American man, for 2 months straight, engaging him in the same way she did in the video, sticking the same flourescent green donuts into his face and all that? I wonder if this American man will be able to recognise those Mandarin sounds.
The video compares brainstorming baby vs not brainstorming baby. I wonder how a passive baby compares with an active adult? PS. I don't understand why people often say that adults can't differentiate between sounds. I thought we have always been able to tell from a person's accent whether he/she was from our city/state? That difference in accent is even tinier than the different between R and L. A lot of us have difficulty comprehending rapid speech, but do many of us have difficulty telling one consonant from another, thus one word from another, even when speech is slow? A Japanese learns English for 10 years and still relies on guesswork to tell between "raw" and "law"? I don't think so. We have trouble pronouncing, yes, but hearing, I don't think so. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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