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British monoglots! | ||
Tags: Monolingual | United Kingdom (UK) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6276 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 9 of 43 30 May 2011 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think a certain insular attitude plays a role too in British attitudes, and this existed long before English was a widely-known second language. In Shakespeare's play Richard II, one character is ordered to be sent into exile, and before he departs he complains that he will have to give up English, and is too old to go back to school to learn another language (presumably he has little or no knowledge of Latin). In The Merchant of Venice, an English suitor of Portia is reported to be unable to speak any foreign language, and Portia herself says she knows little English. Shakespeare seemed to regard ignorance of foreign languages as a characteristically English trait.
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| boisjolie Newbie United States Joined 5297 days ago 26 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 10 of 43 30 May 2011 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | ||
I think all the griping about Anglophones not speaking multiple languages is unproductive and not very useful. Yes, it's true that may Europeans speak at least English plus their own language, and maybe another depending on their circumstances, but anyone who thinks this is the norm in other parts of the world is kidding himself. I'd also point out that there are often geographical reasons for multilingualism that should be considered. On the European continent, many, many countries are slewn together in a system that keeps the borders quite porous and makes international travel extremely easy. Most of the countries are also somewhat small, which means that most people are quite close to a country that speaks a foreign tongue. Compare that with America. With the exceptions of border regions, people can easily be several hundred to a few thousand miles away from any country that speaks another language (in most cases, Spanish). Consider an Aussie or a Kiwi, and the situation is much the same. Any comparison to continental Europe is bankrupt. Working in Southern California, I'm in somewhat regular contact with Spanish-speaking customers who haven't bothered to learn enough English to understand/respond to spoken prices or very basic questions. And they're living in a predominately English speaking country. When I go into Mexico, outside of heavily-touristed areas, bilinguals are few and far between. Unless there's a major benefit involved with learning a language, few people do it. In the current state of the world, English is the one language that can put you into contact with an extremely wide array of potential customers. Currently I'm in Beijing. In my small group we have knowledge of English, French, Spanish, Japanese, and Cantonese- virtually nobody speaks any of these languages, with the exception of English-speaking tour guides and hotel staff- and even then, it's so heavily accented that it interferes with understanding. That's in Beijing- an increasingly cosmopolitan city that has a flow of millions of tourists a year. How multilingual do you think a rural Argentinian is? Or a Peruvian? Vietnamese? Tourist areas excluded, even knowledge of English is sparse. And really, why should it be any different? Given that most people in English-speaking countries don't have any practical opportunity to even use their second tongue unless they intend to travel extensively, why should they be criticized for not taking on the thousand-plus hour investment? Basic math is something that we all use on a nearly daily basis, in shops, at work, calculating time, etc. Korean or Arabic is not something that would have the same use to me, in any way whatsoever. ((Not that arithmetic is a comparable investment to language learning. As for more advanced math, which is really more comparable to language learning than arithmetic, I'd also ask why I should learn it. Advanced calculus has no application to most people in their every day lives, certain careers excluded)). 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| galindo Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5211 days ago 142 posts - 248 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Portuguese | Message 11 of 43 30 May 2011 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with those saying that it's not really necessary for British people to learn a second language, so it's only natural for those with no interest in languages to stay monolingual. In some countries, learning English is very closely tied to your chances of getting a good job and being successful; in other countries (like the UK, the US, Japan), you can get all that without leaving the comfort of your native language.
Most people who know several languages have reasons other than "I love learning languages." I know a girl from Indonesia who speaks fluent English, German, and Japanese in addition to her native Indonesian. Her family moved to Germany when she was 17 and she's been living and working there ever since, and she learned Japanese because she's a big fan of Japanese entertainment. Does she love languages? No, she just happened to learn them thanks to her living situation and her hobby. She doesn't consider it a big accomplishment to know four languages; it's just something that happened. I think that the chances of this sort of situation occurring to a British person are much lower. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5457 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 12 of 43 30 May 2011 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | ||
It's certainly not limited to Brits. There are many Norwegian expats in Spain, and a lot of them don't bother to learn Spanish. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| pj1991 Newbie United States Joined 4957 days ago 29 posts - 49 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 13 of 43 30 May 2011 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Exactly. And once you get closer to border areas, there's a spike in multilingualism. This doesn't mean fluency in both languages necessarily, but the amount of people at a proficient level in the other language jumps quite a bit. There are several French speaking communities scattered around northern Vermont and Maine, and many more people in the communities that can handle themselves in French thanks to an open border between Quebec and that part of the US for years. And while I've never personally been to any states that border with Mexico, I've been led to believe that the amount of Americans that can speak Spanish at a decent level jumps there as well. It's really a matter of opportunity to speak more than one language. It's not as though the parts of the US that border Quebec or Mexico are full of monolingual Anglophones on our side, but jump over the border and everyone's speaking 10 different languages and using English more proficiently than we do. When it becomes practical to everyday life, English speakers pick up other languages just the same as anywhere, and you would probably see more of it if there were more going on along our borders (Northern Vermont isn't exactly the place to go for a wild time). But what does some kid born and raised in a place like Nebraska, for example, have to care about learning anything but English for? He can travel 1000 miles in any direction and he's still surrounded by people who speak English. Unless it's something he enjoys then it's just unnecessary, he'll probably never use anything but English in a real life situation, fluent in one language or twenty. [Sorry for cutting up the original post a little, didn't want to make this one too long so I just quoted the parts I wanted to mention] 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5230 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 14 of 43 30 May 2011 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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The bit about Shakespeare I didn't know - that's why it's so good to keep lurking here ;)
I'd say knowledge of foreign languages is almost mandatory where conditions are such that they promote migration, and short of a luxury but pretty close everywhere else, so it's quite clear that we should expect it in some areas or from people who come from there and not in / from the rest. Then there are tourists. Tourists do not generally bother to learn much more than si'l vous plait (if at all) and let's be honest about it, why should they? But communication is needed one way or another, so it's reasonable to add zones around tourist traps to the list of places where knowledge of languages is to be expected, and expect nothing from the rest. And then there are true immigrants, and 'forever foreigners'. People like my Russian and Lithuanian friends move to another country and they know they have to learn the local language to be able to function independently, and if they can't do something on their own they resort to others to lend them a hand. But that's because they had to migrate out of necessity; let them not need the language (think of housewives not going out much or only with other expats -- I've seen that so please spare me the comments about sexism) and they won't learn it because it takes some effort. This is self-evident if you find pockets of foreign immigrants and you pay some attention to their degrees of proficiency. Finally, 'forever foreigner', lads or lasses who, as others have said, stay <there> for 20 years and don't bother to learn even 'good morning'. That's the kind of people I guess the OP was referring to (British or not) and they're the only group I really deem nearly deserving anything that comes to them. That's not just disrespectful, it's asking for trouble. Surely you won't get killed or injured for that unless you move to a really bad place, but besides Japan I can't think of other places where a helpless foreigner won't get surely abused to some extent. And to top it off such an attitude translates to moving around in your language bubble and isolating yourself from the country and culture, which makes spending there such a long time kind of... pointless. Anyway, as my Russian friends' example shows, this is only a natural human tendency and you probably won't be able to pull it off without throwing money at people. So unless these people are really annoying, we shouldn't really bash them for what they do. They're probably paying for it already :) Edit: about even basic maths... I heard a hairdresser complain about her daughter having to learn to add fractions at school - something she never ever needed. You can't imagine how sad this kind of thing makes me, but, hey I'll bet she knows more than I do about what she needed in her life. Edited by mrwarper on 30 May 2011 at 7:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6038 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 15 of 43 30 May 2011 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | ||
This reminds me of an old Russian textbook about the higher maths. It starts with the following words: "Every educated person should have some understanding of integral and differential calculus." I like how this clashes with the modern, strictly utilitarian view of education ;-). 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5230 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 16 of 43 30 May 2011 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | ||
When I started Physics at the university ~99% of my classmates (literally -- we were more than 100 students in my group) would ask 'Algebra? (meaning linear algebra) what's the use of that?'. Interestingly enough, one of my English students, a ripe old Law professor at that University, has a son who was very probably one of those classmates of mine, give or take a couple of years -- when I told him I had a degree in Physics he went 'I never understood what the use of Physics is...' so I gather it's not just this modern world ;-( Edit: changed the smiley to frown ;) Edited by mrwarper on 30 May 2011 at 8:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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