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How fast do languages ’age’ | ||
Tags: Age | Foreign Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5223 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 1 of 8 29 April 2011 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've been working outside the UK recently. While I was away had to depend on my most recent language, Castilian Spanish, even though I was not based in Europe. However, when I met other nationals and used their languages, Italian, French, German, while grammatically correct, idiomatic use of language had gone become old fashioned. My rudimentary Russian and a tadge of Arabic didn't show the same defects probably because I was never terribly idiomatic in those languages...
Do certain colloquial languages out-date quicker than others ? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 budonoseito Pro Member United States budobeyondtechnRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5809 days ago 261 posts - 344 votes Studies: French, Japanese Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 8 29 April 2011 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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It seems slang and idioms change very fast. Probably faster now that we have the
internet. I often use urbandictionary to lookup slang here in the USA and I still live here. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mrpootys Groupie United States Joined 5615 days ago 62 posts - 69 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 8 29 April 2011 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I understand where you are coming from, and that is why I have never believed in learning a bunch of idiomatic
expressions. I here so many travelers attempting to speak "real American" and it comes off sounding incorrect odd and cheesy. The saddest part, is that you can never go wrong speaking a language properly. You will never be misunterstood, never outdated, and for the most part appreciated. Why would anyone want to learn to speak english or any other language improperly is beyond me, as I know here, in the business world and dating world a person is valued for the most part in how well he or she can carry themselves intelligently. I had the same worries when I was studying German using old materials. I wondered when speaking with natives how I would come off. But, believe or not I was actually appreciated for my properness, and most girls loved the way I talked. Now not everything idiomatic is bad, and somethings you need some to get along. But, its better if you pick those up as you go, and not out of a book. I come from the hood, so believe me when I say that I dont speak the same way with my friends as I would with coworkers. Edited by mrpootys on 29 April 2011 at 9:21pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5385 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 4 of 8 29 April 2011 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | ||
In general, few important changes occur within a language on the scale of a human life. Changes to idiomatic expressions, as you mention, typically represent a very small sample of the language, and many other idiomatic expressions remain unchanged for centuries. However, there is a small part of any language that is very volatile. The more recent the innovation, the more volatile it is. If the idiomatic expressions you mention were recent additions to the language when you learned them, then it's likely it will be gone rather quickly. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5434 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 5 of 8 02 May 2011 at 2:01am | IP Logged | ||
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I think the issue isn't idiomatic language per se; it's more cultural change. Just recently, I was watching some American gangster movies from the 30s and the 40s. I had no problem understanding them. Of course, you have to adapt to a vastly different cultural and technological environment. Fast forward now to contemporary American television drama shows, there is a huge change again in terms of cultural references and above all technology. Just look at the differences in telephone technology as seen in the 30s and today. There are all sorts of semantic references that may seem ephemeral because the underlying phenomena are ephemeral. So, let's say you lived in Paris 30 years ago during your student years and go back now, student slang is going to be quite different of course. But the language of your contemporaries will not have changed that much because you are all part of the same generation. The problem is that as we age we become more and more distanced from the fashionable, trendy, "in", dominant language of the 18 to 35-old trendsetters.
It's not really the language aging. It's people aging. As Arekkusu has rightly pointed out, structurally, language doesn't change that quickly. The lexicon is the most rapidly changing part of the language, and, in fact, it's not really that there are lots of new words. What happens most of the time is that words are recombined in new ways. Some words like cell phone, tweet, text (verb), reality tv, among so many, are not that new after all. They have just taken on new meanings. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 6 of 8 02 May 2011 at 7:38am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, I find that slang doesn't change as fast as people say it does. If you're out of the loop you're not gonna be able to keep up, so if your target language is not your prime obsession you'll probably do better to avoid the most volatile compounds. But if it's your main thing, if you engage with it every day, keeping up with the slang isn't as hard as some people make it out to be.
And more importantly, slang and idiomatics is where a language is the most vivid, creative and alive. The rules aren't static, they bend to your will. Compounds and expressions are born and die. This is where language it playful and exploring its boundaries, and it's where tomorrow's language is born. For me, slang and colloquialisms is the beating heart of a language, and when I get to a level where I can appreciate it, I feel alive. When I get to a level where I can produce it, I feel like I'm finally taking part in the language, not just observing it. Also, say it with a laugh and a smile and if it's cheezy, people will laugh and appreciate it (except boring people). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6663 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 7 of 8 05 May 2011 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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The problem with slang is that it can vary from city to city and even between different groups of friends. I could probably walk through the halls of an English-speaking high school and not completely understand every conversation.
When I was in high school, older people who tried to use our slang never got it quite right and sounded pretty bad. I like knowing about the more casual aspects of a language, but I don't want to sound like that. What do you want to do with a language and whom do you want to talk to? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Emily232 Newbie Ireland Joined 5055 days ago 19 posts - 29 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish | Message 8 of 8 09 May 2011 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm from Ireland and even is such a small country I've noticed (apart from general slang and expressions that are used throughout the country) so much regional slang that will only be used in one town and might have a completely different meaning or make no sense in another area. Even my younger brother (only 5 years younger) uses lots of expressions and slang that I would never use. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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