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LearningSpanishLikeCrazy (LSLC) w/ FSI | ||
Tags: Fake Reviews | LSLC | Platiquemos | Pimsleur | Reading | FSI | Book | Grammar | English | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7210 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 57 of 193 24 April 2005 at 3:02am | IP Logged |
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For anyone who thinks the number of LSLC reviews on Amazon is being exaggerated, this simple google search lists 166 occurrences of the two phrases: "learningspanishlikecrazy" and "Was this review helpful to you" together on any single page in the Amazon.com domain. I count at least 58 distinct products.
Keep in mind that search doesn't include variations in spelling. For instance, replacing the phrase "learningspanishlikecrazy" with "spanish like crazy" returns 128 hits, 51 of which are distinct. Who knows how many there really are? Edited by heartburn on 24 April 2005 at 3:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Platiquemos Hexaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Panama platiquemos-letstalk Joined 7165 days ago 126 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish | Message 58 of 193 24 April 2005 at 10:13am | IP Logged |
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Well, I've calmed down quite a bit, and am sober, so I'm about to end my complaining session on "Crazy". It does occur to me, though, that some of you might be interested in what got Jackson so upset. I'd be very interested in hearing from any of you who see anything illegal or immoral here. Here is the page I had on "Crazy":
Several users of this site have asked me to comment on “Learning Spanish Like Crazy”, (hereafter referred to as “Crazy”) particularly in view of an apparent coordinated attack on Platiquemos (and other “premium” Spanish learning programs) through the review process on Amazon.com.. First, a couple of facts that will help explain why I have no respect for the people behind ”Crazy”. The reviewer “Sean” of Platiquemos Level I on Amazon.com (who pushes “Crazy”) states that Platiquemos isn’t as good as the original Foreign Service Institute (FSI) Programmatic Spanish. In fact, the two are simply not comparable: Platiquemos is based on FSI’s Basic Course in Spanish, which is completely different, as well as being about twice as extensive and thorough as the Programmatic Course. For what it’s worth, I did some work with the Programmatic Course at FSI, and neither I nor many of my colleagues liked it as well as the Basic Course. On the same page at Amazon.com, “Laura” lambastes Platiquemos for teaching “escuadrones de bombardeo” (bomber squadrons) among other similar useless things. Unfortunately, Platiquemos doesn’t contain the things she complains about, which makes it quite obvious that despite her claims she knows nothing about Platiquemos. She goes on to brag about how “Crazy” teaches you to insult people. Based on my nearly 30 years experience living and working in Latin America, learning insults before you have a serious level of proficiency in the language and a pretty thorough knowledge of the culture, is just……well, crazy. “Crazy”, by the way, isn’t sold through Amazon.com, which means that the attacks on Platiquemos, Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, etc. can’t be answered there. Now to the “Crazy” website itself (www.learningspanishlikecrazy.com) . The site reads like a TV “infomercial”: ..."and if you’re still not convinced we’ll also give you x, a gazillion dollar value, absolutely free…”. It is authored by one Patrick Jackson who doesn’t tell us much about himself except that he’s spent thousands of dollars and myriad hours trying to learn Spanish with every self-teaching program on the market, including Platiquemos. He goes on to delicately describe what he learned from those programs as “useless junk”. While I may not have a very high opinion of some of the competition, I wouldn't describe them as "worthless junk". Then he discovered the secret, apparently by living in a “rooming house” with new immigrants. Nowhere, however, does he give us any indication of the level of proficiency he has achieved, such as an ACTFL rating. I don’t want to get too carried away here….Mr. Jackson’s screed irritates me tremendously. It is really unclear what he’s selling, except for the FSI Programmatic Spanish. He also talks about something called Fast Spanish, which he says FSI is keeping secret, but which he somehow got hold of. It strikes me, as someone who formerly worked at FSI, as highly unlikely that they would keep a great Spanish learning program secret, but I’ll find out and put the answer here. To sum up my impression of “Crazy”, I can only say that it’s publicity, in addition to being based on slandering the competition, is very short on facts—but full of superlatives about itself. “Crazy” is fairly generous in giving free samples, which I have examined. The methodology appears to be very much like Pimsleur (for a discussion of the Pimsleur program, go here). To lighten the mood, an amusing contrast. Mr. Jackson complains that he was taught by some unnamed program that popcorn in Spanish is “rosettes de maíz”. "Rosets de maíz is one of many words for popcorn, but by far the most commonly used is “palomitas” (little doves). Then, in the samples, the two speakers are talking about a seafood restaurant and whether "bacalao" will be available. Bacalao is “cod”, almost always salted and dried. It is a traditional Christmas Eve food, and as one who has tried it, very much of a “learned taste”. In any case, it isn’t something I’ve ever seen on the menu of a seafood restaurant. Of course I haven’t been to all of the seafood restaurants in Latin America, and maybe somewhere there are some that feature bacalao. To use Mr. Jackson’s delicate phrasing, talk about “useless junk”. Mr. Jackson refers constantly to “real Latin American Spanish” as opposed to what is taught in other programs. I hate to have to tell him this, but what a student of Spanish needs to learn is the same kind of Spanish taught in schools all over the continent, not the dialect of a particular region nor the slang with which many (especially the kind that would be living in a “boarding house” in New York) use. Those things can be picked up as appropriate (depending on where you are and with whom you’re dealing) after you have a good grounding in standard Latin American Spanish. Learning and trying to use slang can not only get you laughed at, it could also get you in trouble. I hate to burst Mr. Jackson’s bubble, but In most of South America Spanish is referred to as castellano, and saying hablo castellano is perfectly correct and normal. Also, gringo, which Mr. Jackson seems to think is akin to the infamous “n” word, is used in a purely descriptive sense more than derogatorily (except perhaps for Mexico). I refer to myself as a gringo all the time. Finally, if Mr. Jackson is telling the truth, “Crazy” is the greatest thing to come along since sliced bread, and everybody else should just fold their tents and fade quietly into the night. If, on the other hand, “Crazy” doesn’t accomplish what he says it does (and the only way to find out would be a controlled experiment between “Crazy” and, say, Platiquemos), “Crazy” is just another of the “miracle cure” scams which seem to proliferate in the Spanish learning arena. Based on my experience, and the content and tone of both the website and the “reviews” in Amazon.com, I’m inclined toward the latter. Edited by Platiquemos on 26 April 2005 at 1:50pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| crylant Groupie United States cjrylantwealthmanage Joined 7200 days ago 85 posts - 85 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 59 of 193 24 April 2005 at 12:28pm | IP Logged |
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I have purchased the LSLC product and I have previously commented on it in this thread. I am also considerding purchasing the Platiquemos product so I think I am fairly objective. I think I am addicted to spending good money in search of the best product to learn spanish. I should spend more time studying spanish and less time studying which product is best.
Regardless of that I can see why the owner of LSLC is upset and I can equally see why the owner of Platiquemos is upset. Regardless of both owners being upset, in my opinion, threating litigation is too far. The way I see it, is that Platiquemos openly states his opinion of LSLC on his web site. LSLC does the same thing but on Amazon shielded by other's names. We all know the reviews on Amazon are less than objective, but proving that would be impossible. I don't understand the law as much as an attorney would but I don't see why a person cannot post his opinion of another's product on his web site. I do not have the legal knowledge to have a valid opinion but when do defamatory and slanderous statements override the First Ammendment? It is common for attorneys to write harsh letters without any legal backing to supprot them. That may or may not be the case here. It would be a good investment for Platiquemos to seek counsel before deciding to remove his comments. To sum up my thoughts, I like LSLC's product. I have not used Platiquemos so I do not have an opinion, but it does not seem fair for LSLC to post negative comments about Platiquemos on Amazon and expect Platiquemos not to have an opinion of their own. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Platiquemos Hexaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Panama platiquemos-letstalk Joined 7165 days ago 126 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish | Message 60 of 193 24 April 2005 at 1:02pm | IP Logged |
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Dear Crylant:
You certainly seem a fair-minded and objective person. But I do have a question for you: How can you possibly think that Jackson has reason to be angry with me? Remember, I didn't start this--I only heard of "Crazy" from one of the fraudulent reviews on Amazon.com. Do you see anything in my comments above that is unfair or slanderous? Did you read above that "Heartburn" has identified some 160-something reviews on Amazon attacking 58 (that's fifty-eight) different products? What does Jackson expect, that we should just take it? If we lived in a different century, I'd be arranging to find out if Jackson can shoot as well as he can bloviate. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7210 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 61 of 193 24 April 2005 at 3:24pm | IP Logged |
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Main Entry: blo·vi·ate
Function: intransitive verb Inflected Form(s): -ed/-ing/-s Etymology: probably irregular from blow + -i- + -ate : to orate verbosely and windily "bloviate." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (24 Apr. 2005). You learn something new every day :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7210 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 62 of 193 24 April 2005 at 6:01pm | IP Logged |
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Mr. Casteel, I was thinking. If you're going to remove the LSLC page from your site, why not point the LSLC link on your site here. Then Mr. Jackson is guaranteed to read this.
1 person has voted this message useful | |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7210 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 63 of 193 24 April 2005 at 11:51pm | IP Logged |
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[DELETED]
Bah. I originally posted that it seemed as if the LSLC "reviews" were disappearing from the Amazon website. It must have been my imagination. I think it's time for bed. Edited by heartburn on 25 April 2005 at 12:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| crylant Groupie United States cjrylantwealthmanage Joined 7200 days ago 85 posts - 85 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 64 of 193 27 April 2005 at 8:46pm | IP Logged |
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Mr. Casteel your point is taken and I can only imagine your frustration.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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