28 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4 Next >>
Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew
| Message 9 of 28 18 December 2010 at 4:49pm | IP Logged |
I actually do think there is one thing that's inherently more complex in Arabic or Hebrew than in Latin-script languages: the fact that they practically leave out vowels, so at least some of the reading process comes down to "guessing" things out of context, and to do that, you need to have attained a certain level in the language. That's the tricky thing about abjads, as opposed to alphabets - in order to read them in the first place without vowel marks, you need to know quite well the spoken language. Many people who have gone through the process of learning such a language argue for delaying serious attempts at reading lengthy authentic material for the stage at which you're already well-versed in the spoken language.
Still, once you do start reading, it basically comes down to "practice makes perfect". I have been observing my reading speed slowly, but steadily improving in the past year or so in Hebrew, to the point where it's almost as good as in English or other Latin-script languages. It was a lot more difficult to attain that level with the Hebrew script than with the Greek alphabet, because of the "incomplete" nature of the script, but it's not impossible.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Segata Triglot Groupie Germany Joined 5172 days ago 64 posts - 125 votes Speaks: German*, Japanese, English Studies: Korean, Esperanto
| Message 10 of 28 18 December 2010 at 5:09pm | IP Logged |
Maybe you should just buy (or download, I won't judge you) the first book and actually try to read something for a change. You might be pleasantly surprised. ;) Of course you can't read a book in a foreign language if you've.. well.. never read a book in a foreign language. The first Japanese book I read was "Kafka on the shore" and even though the first few pages, maybe eben the first 50 or so pages, were more pain than pleasure, I began to pick up speed quite fast. You should be able to do the same, all you need to do is try and not give up. :)
1 person has voted this message useful
| Andrew C Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom naturalarabic.com Joined 5191 days ago 205 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written)
| Message 11 of 28 18 December 2010 at 5:30pm | IP Logged |
Just want to add, the Latin alphabet only seems easy because it is so familiar. Adult Arabic speakers trying to learn to read English for the first time find it a real struggle.
Edited by Andrew C on 18 December 2010 at 5:31pm
1 person has voted this message useful
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6143 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian
| Message 12 of 28 18 December 2010 at 8:54pm | IP Logged |
I'd have to agree with others that said that say that the Arabic alphabet is quite tricky. I've studied Persian, which uses a modified form of the Arabic alphabet, since August and still have trouble reading the alphabet. I consistently mix up letters, don't notice letters, and all sorts of other problems. My reading speed has certainly improved since August, but I still can't say it's easy at all. In fact, I'd venture to say that the Perso-Arabic alphabet is my biggest obstacle in learning Persian at the moment. And now that I think of it, I actually knew most of the Arabic alphabet long before I even started learning Persian.
Compare this to the fact that I don't even remember learning Cyrillic at all because it was so simple to assimilate. Even Japanese's kana and, dare I say it, kanji, are easier for me to read.
I hope that all of you who said that it will get easier with time are right, because right now it's just painful trying to read all but the easiest words.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Hashimi Senior Member Oman Joined 6260 days ago 362 posts - 529 votes Speaks: Arabic (Written)* Studies: English, Japanese
| Message 13 of 28 18 December 2010 at 9:08pm | IP Logged |
Actually, if you happen to be bilingual in a Latin-based language and a language using
the Arabic script (or similar script like Mongolian), you will find that reading the
Arabic script is faster than Latin. Many bilinguals told me that. It's just because you
don't read in Arabic frequently.
In general, reading Chinese characters (and its derivatives) is the fastest, then
Arabic, then Latin.
I'm talking about the speed of reading once you master the language, not which script
is easier to learn.
1 person has voted this message useful
| furrykef Senior Member United States furrykef.com/ Joined 6473 days ago 681 posts - 862 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Latin, Italian
| Message 14 of 28 19 December 2010 at 3:19am | IP Logged |
I'd bet that the hardest alphabet to learn (not counting ideographic ones or very horribly contrived ones) would be one that uses the Roman alphabet... only every single letter is completely different. Imagine if "D" were pronounced "A", "Q" were pronounced "B", etc... it'd be a nightmare because our association between Roman script and Germanic/Romance phonemes is firmly entrenched.
I wonder if the Greek alphabet is easier to learn than Cyrillic for this reason, since it shares fewer letterforms.
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English
| Message 15 of 28 19 December 2010 at 9:40am | IP Logged |
ellasevia wrote:
I've studied Persian, which uses a modified form of the Arabic alphabet, since August and still have trouble reading the alphabet. |
|
|
Maybe it's because the Perso-Arabic alphabet is ill-suited for an Indo-European language like Persian or maybe it's because you mainly read the language instead of writing it. If that's the case, try writing some of the texts that you read multiple times.
Also I find the Persian Nastaʿlīq script harder to read than the Ruqʿa and Naskh scripts used in Arabic. If your textbooks use the Nastaʿlīq script maybe rewriting the texts in Naskh script might help.
Hashimi wrote:
In general, reading Chinese characters (and its derivatives) is the fastest, then Arabic, then Latin.
|
|
|
I believe that while it might appear to you that reading Chinese characters or Arabic words is faster because both writing systems are more information-dense (implied unwritten vowel signs in Arabic, multiple syllables expressed by one Chinese character etc.) the actual reading speed is probably not significantly faster, because the amount of information that can be processed by the human brain in a given time period is limited.
1 person has voted this message useful
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6143 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian
| Message 16 of 28 19 December 2010 at 10:09am | IP Logged |
Doitsujin wrote:
ellasevia wrote:
I've studied Persian, which uses a modified form of the Arabic alphabet, since August and still have trouble reading the alphabet. |
|
|
Maybe it's because the Perso-Arabic alphabet is ill-suited for an Indo-European language like Persian or maybe it's because you mainly read the language instead of writing it. If that's the case, try writing some of the texts that you read multiple times.
Also I find the Persian Nastaʿlīq script harder to read than the Ruqʿa and Naskh scripts used in Arabic. If your textbooks use the Nastaʿlīq script maybe rewriting the texts in Naskh script might help. |
|
|
I totally agree with you there--the Perso-Arabic alphabet is not well-suited for Persian at all. Sure, it works well enough, but it's cumbersome and just...not right, just as it wouldn't be right to use a romanization to write Chinese. And conversely, I would guess that the Latin alphabet is not well-suited to Arabic.
Everything I use uses what appears to be Naskh, thankfully. I don't know what I would do if it were all in Nastaʿlīq. But maybe I'll try writing more in that case. مرسى for the tip.
1 person has voted this message useful
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum
This page was generated in 0.3125 seconds.
DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
|