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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| LLF Groupie United Kingdom Joined 5581 days ago 66 posts - 72 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 25 of 62 18 March 2011 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The problem, though, is that the possible meanings of an unknown word are often much wider than the very subtle difference you have described, and this is particularly true with nouns. If you read a sentence like "The people fell silent as they saw a blurgle coming towards them", there is generally no way to reliably deduce what a "blurgle" may be, from context alone. And this happens frequently, in my experience. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 26 of 62 18 March 2011 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Finer points of advanced vs difficult? They mean completely different things. At the risk of labouring the point, let's look at just how many different words we can drop into the sentence in question...
And if it can't help with such basic things, why should it help with more complicated vocabulary? And if it can't help with such basic things, why should it help with more colloquial vocabulary? And if it can't help with such basic things, why should it help with more esoteric vocabulary? And if it can't help with such basic things, why should it help with more sophisticated vocabulary? And if it can't help with such basic things, why should it help with more specialist vocabulary? And if it can't help with such basic things, why should it help with more vulgar vocabulary? why should it help with more colourful vocabulary? why should it help with more flowery vocabulary? why should it help with more advanced vocabulary? ...with more erotic vocabulary? ...with more indefinite vocabulary? ...with more poetic vocabulary? And here we're already assuming that the reader's grammatical knowledge is sophisticated enough to recognise the structure "more+adjective" as a comparitive quality (more advanced vocabulary = vocabulary that is more advanced), rather than quantity (more advanced vocabulary = additional vocabulary that is advanced) (consider the phrase "more of the same"). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5454 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 27 of 62 18 March 2011 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
No, it is not how you learnt your native language, and, although the marketing may claim they do, Asimil and other courses work radically different from how children learn their first language. A child does not just listen. A child practises a lot and a child uses several years to reach an acceptable level. Assimil does not teach you by making you listen endlessly to incomprehensible input. It gives you translations. It gives you grammar notes every single lesson. It employs a gradual progression. Edited by tractor on 18 March 2011 at 8:50pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6676 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 28 of 62 18 March 2011 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree with you. It is very difficult to know how we learn second languages. People remember what they like to. It is very easy to deceive ourselves about what methods or techniques we really use. What method do I use? I don't know. What method do I recommend? I don't know. The more I read about this topic, the less I know. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5299 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 29 of 62 18 March 2011 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree. The ingenious idea behind the Assimil method: Create a really grammar based, traditional course, exactly in the style of the much hated Latin grammar method and hide this fact by simply printing the grammar in small letters. Only a real brain can come up with such a solution ... Edited by lingoleng on 19 March 2011 at 12:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| CaucusWolf Senior Member United States Joined 5273 days ago 191 posts - 234 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Arabic (Written), Japanese | Message 30 of 62 19 March 2011 at 1:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think that this is a little missleading because you can know every word that you're reading and still not understand it. I think what the majority of people are talking about when they say this is that it helps you learn the syntatic patterns and other grammatical structures when you read things over and over again. Reading pages of text of words I knew, but didn't fully understand helped me within a reasonable amount of time understand alot of the Syntatical patterns and grammatical constructions.
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| koba Heptaglot Senior Member AustriaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5869 days ago 118 posts - 201 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, French | Message 31 of 62 19 March 2011 at 2:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I disagree that Assimil is a grammar based course. It gives you literal translations, but it also points out what you need to know in the grammar notes, which, of course, come very handy because it helps you to get a more fully understanding of what you're saying instead of just repeating. Of course a child practises a lot and takes more time to develop his/her language skills, but what I'm saying here, intrinsecally, is that intuitively, that is, by listening, you can get a feeling of the language and start understanding a lot of constructions, grammar structures that would be explained to you in grammar books, you wouldn't need them. Now, of course you can't just want to start studying a language like this, you must have at least an intermediate level to be able to follow what's going on, you must have enough vocabulary to understand the subject you want to read/watch and the grammar in it will just come to you naturally. I can tell you from my own experience and from others who have learned like this, a lot of reading/listening can help you to figure things out. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5419 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 32 of 62 19 March 2011 at 2:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Agreed. It seems to me that the passive wave is what really makes the courses quite different from most others. You first just need to learn to understand the sentences and what they mean. At the time of learning the dialogues passively you look at the grammar notes you don't think about it as much as in other courses. You get used to learning the dialogues and just understanding them and learning enough of them that when it comes to actively reproducing the language and looking at the grammar again, the grammar notes make more sense as you can link what they say with what you've already learned and it falls into place more quickly than learning the grammar without much content to link it to at the time of learning. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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