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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1577 of 3959 16 December 2009 at 1:31am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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SP: Hoy seguí leyendo el libro sueco sobre el flamenco en el autobus,, y mas particolarmente las paginas que hablan deel período de 1800-1900 donde un cierto numero de 'tocaores', 'cantaores' y 'bailaores' diventaron famosos, y donde la guitarra diventó realmente una parte indispensable del flamenco. En el hecho, la guitarra es para mí l'ingrediente más importante del flamenco porque estoy muy interesado en la música instrumental, pero para los demás aficionados de la música flamenca las/los cantantes se perciben como más importantes.
El libro contiene muchos términos especiales para los diferentes tipos de flamenco, y reconozco muchos nombres de canciones y danzas de la música clásica española (solea, fandango, bulerías). De hecho ya he hablado en este hilo sobre el compositor y vihuelista del renacimiento Alonso Mudarra y sobre el compositor barroco Padre Antonio Soler que ambos escribíian música con el sonido típico del flamenco. Y cuando se hice publicó el flamenco, fue la base misma de la música de Manuel de Falla y otros compositores romanticos.. El concepto más inusual en este cultura por cierto es "el duende" - la rara ocasión donde todo se eleva en una unidad superior, y donde el público están totalmente cautivados. FR: Ce soir je lu un peu dans mon livre sur la poésie de troubadours, écrite dans l'ancien provençal. Mais je ne peux pas écrire cette language (parce que je ne possède pas un dictionaire AP-->FR ou une combination AP--->autre langue) , et pour cela je vais l'illustrer par une traduction hyperlitérale d'une partie de la biographie du poète Marcabrun: Marcabrus si fo gitatz a la porta d'un ric home, ni anc non saup hom qu'il fo ni don. Macrabrun 'self was thrown at the door ofA rich man, not even not knew man whoHe was nor whence, E N'Aldrics del Vilar fetz lo nourir. And Mr.Aldrics ofThe Vilar made him feed Apres estet tant ab un trobador que avia nom Cercamon qu'el comensset a trobar. Afterwards was somuch with a troubadour who had name Cercamon thatHe began to 'find' (=compose) Et adones el avia nom Panperdut; mas d'aqui enan ac nom Marcabrun. And then he had name BreadLost, but fromHere forth (he) had name Marcabrun. Et en aqel temps non appellava hom cansson, mas tot qant hom cantava eron vers. An in that time non called man chanson, but all what man sang was verses. E fo mout cridatz et ausitz pel mon, e doptatz per sa lenga; And (he) was much yelled and heard throughThe world, and feared for his tongue car el fo tant maldizens que, a la fin, lo desfeiron li castellan de Guiana, because he was so badspeaking that, at the end, him offdid (=did in, killed) the castel-owner of Guiana, de cui avia dich mout mal. of whom he had said much bad. Edited by Iversen on 16 December 2009 at 4:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1578 of 3959 18 December 2009 at 12:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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SP: Cerré el libro sueco sobre el flamenco ayer, menos algunos capítulos sobre famosos cantantes y bailarines. He trabajado horas extras los dos ultimas dias, y martes por la noche fui a comer con algunos de mis collegas y jefes. Así que no he tenido mucho tiempo para estudiar esta semana. Es de esperar que ira mejor durante la Navidad, y entre Navidad y entre Navidad y Año Nuevo, estoy en el trabajo, pero no espero tener mucho que hacer.
RU: Сегодня я предпринял некоторые распечаток из Интернета об ударе по Тунгуске, как я сделал какое-то время назад. Я положил их в сторону, потому что они были слишком тяжелыми - в этих текстах было просто слишком много неизвестных слов. Но теперь дела идут лучше.. В противовес этим текстам, я также читал некоторые разделы разговорник Berlitz, который настолько стар, что коммунисты царили когда она была опубликована: 1974 года! Я купил его до моего первого визита в СССР, где я побывал в Москве и Ленинграде на ознакомительную поездку c институте литературы историческей университета в Орхусе. Другие участники были коммунисты, которые хотели встретиться подлинных товарищих. Я взял однако, чтобы увидеть музеи. Никто из нас не мог говорить или читать русский. ----- I finished my flamenco book yesterday, but I have been working overtime the last couple of days so I haven't had much time to study. However today I found some printouts about the incident at Tunguska which I made some time ago. I have already commented on this in this log, but some of these papers - which tell about a visit to the impact site - were too difficult at the time, so I stoved them away. But now things go somewhat better. As compensation I have also read some pages in an old Berlitz guide which I bought for my first trip to the USSR - print year 1974! I went there on a study tour with the Institute for Modern and Comparative Literature at Aarhus University. The other participants were hardcore communists who went there to meet the comrades, I went there to visit some of the world's greatest museums. No participant in this tour spoke Russian. Edited by Iversen on 21 December 2009 at 2:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5791 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 1579 of 3959 18 December 2009 at 10:20am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Today there are less mistakes than earlier. "Сегодня я предпринял некоторые распечаток из Интернета об ударе по Тунгуске, как я сделал какое-то время назад. There are some problems with the emphasized word. 1) The verb "предпринимать" means "undertake some action" and don't uses without the word-"explainer", for example: "я предпринял поиски". In your case, as I see in English comments, you must say "Сегодня я нашёл". "Предпринял" without the word-"explainer" is incorrect, and "предпринял поиски" is sound poor although grammatically correct. 2) "некоторые распечаток" is incorrect: these words must be conform each other and other words by the case -- the accusative if more exact. I.e. you must say "некоторые распечатки". 3) "Как" formally correct, but all the sentence with "как" means "I found some printouts similar to I had found before". But it seems, you want to say something like "I found some printouts which I had printed year ago". In total, the correct phrase (as I understand it) is: "Сегодня я нашёл некоторые распечатки из Интернета об ударе по Тунгуске, которые я сделал какое-то время назад". (In Russia we don't say "удар по Тунгуске", we say only "Тунгусский метеорит", but formally your case is correct and absolutely understandable) "В противовес этим текстам, я также читал некоторые разделы разговорник Berlitz, который настолько стар, что коммунисты царили когда она была опубликована: 1974 года!" 1) "В противовес" is absolutely correct, but it has the sense... hm... "to counterbalance". Probably, this is exactly that you want say, but I don't be sure. 2) разговорник stays in the wrong case, must be genetive: "я читал разделы разговорника". 3) In the last part of the sentence has 1 syntax mistake: "...коммунисты царили, когда..." 4) In the first part you say about "разговорник". This word has the masculine gender, so you must use masculine in the last part: "когда он был опубликован". 5) At last, you must say "1974 год". These words don't need to be conformed with other parts of the sentence. Formally this is the second sentence of the compound sentence, so "год" must stay in nominative. In addition, it is better to change the word order in the last part of the sentence. As result: "В противовес этим текстам (or Кроме этих текстов), я также читал некоторые разделы разговорника Берлица (Berlitz is the author?), который настолько стар, что когда он был опубликован, царили коммунисты: 1974 год!" "Я купил его до моего первого визита в СССР, где я побывал в Москве и Ленинграде на ознакомительную поездку c институте литературы историческей университета в Орхусе." 1) You must use the prepositional case: "я побывал на ознакомительной поездке". 2) As I understood, you went to USSR with the delegation of the Literature institute of the History university of Århus. If it is correct, you must say "на ознакомительной поездке с институтом". 3) The word "историческей" is incorrect. If it related to "университет" (the History university), you must say "с институтом литературы исторического университета в Орхусе". If it related to "литература" (the institute of history literature), you must say "с институтом исторической литературы университета в Орхусе". "Другие участники были коммунисты, которые хотели встретиться подлинных товарищих." 1) It is better say "другие участники были коммунистами", although "коммунисты" is correct too. 2) The verb "встретиться с кем-то" (to meet somebody) uses with the preposition "с": "они хотели встретиться с...". 3) "товарищих" is incorrect, the right is "товарищей". But in this sentence you must use the instrumental case: "...хотели встретиться с подлинными товарищами". 4) The word "подлинный" in such cases sounds poor. It is better to say "настоящих товарищей". "Подлинный" is used in relation to money, pictures, documents etc as antonym to "фальшивый". "Я взял однако, чтобы увидеть музеи." 1) "взять" means "to take something", so this word is incorrect in this sentence. Probably, you want to say: "Я поехал...". 2) The syntax error: before "однако" you must write the comma: "Я поехал, однако, чтобы...". Or you may to change the word order: "Однако я поехал, чтобы...". "Никто из нас не мог говорить или читать русский." Formally this is correct, but it is better to say "по-русски": "Никто из нас не мог говорить или читать по-русски". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1580 of 3959 18 December 2009 at 11:47am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
SII, you are the most effective and fast proofreader that I have ever heard about. I'll take my time and read your corrections and suggestions, but so far it seems that I'm progressing slowly but consistently. And I wrote the Russian text without looking up half the words, as I had to do in the beginning.
In fact I both I found the printouts and studied them. That's why I used the word "предпринимать" (which I actually had to look up). But "нашёл" is simpler and better.
The reason I used "Как" is that the printout I have read now isn't the same as the one I wrote about earlier in this thread.
Triumph! This is exactly what I wanted to say. The printout had lots of new words and very long and contrived sentences, so I relaxed afterwards with a simple little language guide from the publisher Berlitz
The word "историческей" is incorrect. If it related to "университет" (the History university), you must say "с институтом литературы исторического университета в Орхусе". If it related to "литература" (the institute of history literature), you must say "с институтом исторической литературы университета в Орхусе". The institute was actually the Institute of the history of literature at the one and only University in Århus (or even worse, its official name was "Institut for Moderne og sammenlignende litteraturhistorie", - 'Institute for modern and comparative literature history')
I do remember having read the rule: Nominative if you don't write the copula verb (to be), else Instrumental - though Nominative is sometimes used
I certainly did - the error is due to the expression "to take a tour" in English (and a similar expression in Danish)
I have a question here. If I write "по-русски" here, wouldn't it mean that nobody actually read or spoke Russian during the tour (but in principle someone could have known the language)? I omitted it to indicate that no one in the delegation had a clue about Russian, in quite general terms. Edited by Iversen on 18 December 2009 at 12:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| SII Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5791 days ago 184 posts - 194 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English | Message 1581 of 3959 18 December 2009 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
"Предпринимать" is incorrect in any case: this verb must be used with a "descriptor" of an act which you want to do. So if you found and read the printouts which had been printed earlier, it is best to say "Я нашёл и прочитал". If you print them just now and then read them, it is best to say "Я распечатал и прочитал". But after your explanation about "как" I must say that it is correct :)
Then the correct sentence is "Я купил его до моего первого визита в СССР, где я побывал в Москве и Ленинграде на ознакомительной поездке c институтом современной и сравнительной истории литературы Орхусского университета" (or "университета Орхуса", but usually in Russian in such cases it is used adjective: московский университет, петербургская филармония etc).
I thought about "to take a tour" :)
You use "не мог" (don't can). This indicates that nobody of your group don't knew Russian. What is more, if you say "Никто из нас не говорил по-русски" (without "не мог"), this usually again will imply that nobody of your group don't knew Russian, athough in some context this can mean that, for example, nobody speak Russian at now. (It is interesting, how many mistakes in English I do in each sentence? Surely more then you in Russian :) ) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1582 of 3959 19 December 2009 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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RU: K счастью следующие страницы легке
GR: Όταν απάντησε σε μια ερώτηση κάπου αλλού στο φόρουμ, θα ήθελα να αναφέρω το νησί της Ατλαντίδας, αλλά ευτυχώς το πέταξε στο διαδίκτυο, αλλιώς δεν είχα ανακαλύψει ότι δεν κλήθηκε *Ατλαντίς στην Δημοτική. Όπως ήταν αναμενόμενο, υπάρχει ένα άρθρο σχετικά με το μύθο στης ελληνικής Βηκηπαιδεία. και τώρα τον έχω διαβάσει (αν δεν βρουν εκπλήξεις). Ο μύθος είναι γνωστός μόνο από δύο διάλογοι του Πλάτωνου, ο οποίο, ωστόσο, την λέει σαν να ήταν αλήθεια - και ίσως επίσης είναι αλήθεια. Εν πάση περιπτώσει, έχει μια καλή υποψήφιες για τον τίτλο της αλήθηνή Ατλαντίςστην ηφαιστειογενó νησί της Ακρωτήρι / Θήρα. Πλάτων έγραψε ότι η Ατλαντίδα να καταστράφικε 10.000 χρόνια νωρίτερα, αλλά από τότε έχει επίσης αναφέρεται στην Αθήνα, η οποία δεν υπήρχε τόσο πολύ πίσω - τα πράγματα δεν ταιριάζουν μεταξύ τους. Φαντασιοπληκτοί κρατούν τα 10.000 χρόνια, ρεαλιστές πιστεύουν ότι υπάρχει ένα αριθμητικό λάθος όταν ο Σόλων ακούσει για την τοποθεσία από τους Αιγύπτιους, ώστε πραγματικά υπάρχει μόνο περίοδο στης 1000 χρόνια. Και ταιριάζει τότε τα πράγματα με το Ακρωτήρι που εξερράγη σε μια εκκωφαντική έκρηξη γύρω στο 1500 π.Χ.. Αυτή η καταστροφή δεν μόνο έγινε λιομα το νησί, αλλά σήμαινε επίσης (από ενα τεράστιο τσουνάμι) το τέλος για την κρητική κουλτούρα, η οποία χρησιμοποιείται γραμμική linear Α. Αντ 'αυτού, η Κρήτη κατακτήθηκε από τη μυκηναϊκή Έλληνες, οι οποίοι δημιούργησαν ή Μινωική κουλτούρα ανάμειξη, η οποία χρησιμοποιεί την υπογραφή linear Β - και αποτέλεσμα Όμηρος συμμετείχαν στην καταστολή της Τροίας. Και δεν έχω επισκέψει την Θήρα ακόμα, μόνο την Κρήτη. ---- Due to a question in another thread I had to refer to Atlantis, and I checked the name on the internet - and with reason, because it actually is named "Atlantida" in Modern Greek. The myth has only been handed down to us through two of the dialogues of Platon, and he claims that Atlantis was annihilated 10.000 years earlier. But he also suggests that Athinai already exist when it happened, and that town patently didn't exist in the year 10.500 A.D. The dreamers stick to the 10.000 years, the realists think that a calculating error happened when the Greek Solon heard the history from the Egyptians. And 1.500 BC would fit the catastrophic eruption at Akrotiri (now Thira) which not only destroyed most of that island, but also sent a tsunami towards Crete (Kriti), that put an end to the original Cretan culture (the one that wrote stuff in Linear A and invented the toilet). Soon after Mycenean Greeks invaded the island and established a mixed culture that lasted a few hundred years - long enough for the Cretans under king Diomedes to participate in the war against Troy (Troia). This culture wrote in linear B, which was decoded by Michael Ventris, who found that the language was an old form of Greek. But to this day no one has found out which kind of language is written on the older linear A tablets, not even whether it was Indoeuropean or not. Edited by Iversen on 21 December 2009 at 2:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5865 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 1583 of 3959 19 December 2009 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Klimaatconferentie Nieuws
Het klimaatconferentie in Kopenhagen is voorbij. Ten minste, zijn de bijeenkomsten voorbij. De presidenten en premiers, de afgevaardigden, de activisten en de journalisten zijn op weg naar huis. Veel meer CO2 zal worden toegevoegd aan de atmosfeer als gevolg van deze huiswaarts reizen. Maar wat was volbracht? Leven in Kopenhagen werd gedurende twee weken sterk verstoord. Hotels en restaurants waarschijnlijk zijn erg gelukkig. Journalisten zijn blij. Er waren veel omstredene nieuwsberichten. De politie zijn blij dat de conferentie is voorbij. Nu Kopenhagen kunnen terugkeren naar de normale en genieten van de vakantie seizoen. Maar heeft de klimaatconferentie alles goed gedaan voor het milieu? Was er enige vooruitgang die zal de opwarming van de aarde verminderen? Zal Groenland en Antarctica smelt langzamer? Zal minder broeikasgassen worden uitgestoten? Zal er groenere auto's en vrachtwagens op onze snelwegen? Zullen mensen die leven op eilanden en in kuststeden beter slapen vannacht? Heeft de klimaatconferentie nuttig geweest? Heeft zij de verwachtingen voldaan? Ja. Hij bereikte de verwachtingen van critici en activisten. Die mensen wisten de uitkomst van de conferentie voor de conferentie begonnen. De enige concrete nummer dat leek voort te vloeien uit de conferentie is dat de temperatuur van de aarde niet zal worden toegestaan om verhoging van meer dan 2C. Ik vraag me af hoeveel van de 15.000 deelnemers van mening dat doel haalbaar is. Er was geen overeenstemming over andere specifieke doelstellingen. Er was geen echte overeenstemming over hoeveel geld zou worden besteed. Er was geen overeenstemming over hoe dat vage hoeveelheid geld zou worden besteed. Er was heel weinig zekerheid dat het geld verstandig wordt uitgegeven. Canada ontving de "Fossiel van de Dag" gunning en de "Fossiel van het Jaar" gunning. Onze minister-president vloog helemaal naar Kopenhagen en terug zonder iets dat bleek nuttig te doen . Hij koos niet te spreken. Zou je hem dat kwalijk nemen? Wat kon hij zeggen? Hoe kon hij op alle vragen antwoord? Ik denk dat die prijzen werden goed verdiend. Nu onze overheid kan beginnen met de voorbereidingen voor de volgende klimaatconferentie. Misschien kunnen we weer winnen. Het lijkt erop dat het klimaat conferentie heeft weinig andere winnaars geproduceerd. Edited by tommus on 19 December 2009 at 8:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5846 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1584 of 3959 20 December 2009 at 7:17am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Ik beoordeel het resultaat van de Klimaatkonferentie als een mislukking. Hetgeen wat eruit is gekomen is te vaag. Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful |
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