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How to Become a Polyglot by D. Spivak | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 17 of 73 18 February 2007 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you for the translations, Frenkeld. Even if I don't intend to follow blindly the advice given in the book, it is very interesting to see the detailed study scheme proposed by Spivak because there are things that might be worth trying, and it is always helpful to know about other ways to do things.
Sometime in the future when I have learned Russian I will try to read the original book (which I have downloaded and stored in a safe place), but right now I'm happy just to have read the excerpts. Edited by Iversen on 18 February 2007 at 2:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 18 of 73 18 February 2007 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
Actually, that's one of the mains reasons I decided to make his study methods known here: I am currently test-driving one of his techniques myself (it will appear in one of the few remaining forthcoming entries). Also, his method is "old-fashioned" (no Assimil or FSI there!), and I thought old-fashioned techniques do not get enough coverage in this forum, even though they can be quite effective for some people. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6617 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 19 of 73 18 February 2007 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
The most "old-fashioned" technique around is being exposed to comprehensible input, and learning to speak by speaking. Edited by Linguamor on 18 February 2007 at 11:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 20 of 73 19 February 2007 at 8:36am | IP Logged | |||||
If I understand it correctly, "comprehensible input" is a generic mechanism. What's puzzling is that there seem to be quite a few ideas out there on how to make that "input" more "comprehensible". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6617 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 21 of 73 19 February 2007 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
"Comprehensible input" is speech and writing that you can understand. In my experience, how it is made comprehensible does not greatly matter. What does matter is that the language learner is exposed to ample amounts of it. This essay discusses the importance of comprehensible input and learning to speak by speaking. "Language Learning in the Real World for Non-beginners" http://www.languageimpact.com/articles/gt/nonbegnr.htm Edited by Linguamor on 19 February 2007 at 2:20pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 22 of 73 19 February 2007 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks for the link - I will read it in detail at the first opportunity.
Why do then people argue so much about different study techniques? Most will agree that once at the intermediate level, there is no substitute for practicing all four language skills as much as possible, but in the beginner phase people seem to have especially strong preferences for different approaches. Are we just being silly? Is it that different approaches make the "input" more or less easily comprehensible to different people, especially in the beginning? Or are there additional principles involved? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6942 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 23 of 73 19 February 2007 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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[continuation - 5 of 8]
You will need the following materials: a grammar (if you can't find one, you can make do with what's in the textbook you started out with) and a dictionary, preferably a two-part one, the Foreign-Russian and Russian-Foreign in one volume, about 8 to 12 thousand words each. In fact, a Foreign-Russian dictionary of any thickness will do, especially in your narrow discipline, if you are learning the language for your job. And finally, you will need some texts for reading. Which ones? Up until now you've been reading staid, but very useful passages in a textbook specially designed for beginners. Now that you are past that stage, boldly move on to the texts that you need and that are interesting to you, that were worth putting the effort into the language for. Do you have such texts? If it is your work or life that has led to the need to learn a language, there should be no difficulties. But what if you just can't find any such texts? In that case, I would advise you to pause and think. Here you are, having spend already 3 to 4 months on fairly uninteresting reading matter. Is it worth continuing to waste your time and effort on a language that has nothing you want to read? Could it be better to study the history and dialects of your own language? At least you won't have any trouble finding opportunities to practice. Think about it, now is the right time to make a different choice. ... ... Speaking of prose, there should be no difficulty finding interesting books to read. ... As far as the regimen of the studies, we don't have anything new to say about their time and place. And the content of each lesson will consist in working with a notebook, whose format I would advise you to follow quite closely. It's an instrument that has been polished at the hands of many polyglots ... Take a regular notebook... ... Take a text of interest to you and find in it 3 or 4 not overly long sentences with a structure that you can make at least some sense of at first sight. Cut out and glue this passage on the first fold-out of the notebook, specifically on the top half of the left page. From now on this will be the part of the [dual-page] fold-out that will alwayas contain the text. Of course, if you ... don't want to ruin the book, just copy the sentences by hand into the notebook. Three or four sentences won't take you more than 5 minutes. With the help of a dictionary, quickly figure out the general content of the text, underline the key words. The whole right-hand page on each fold-out is meant for these [the key words]. Divide it in two with a vertical line and write down in the left column 15 key words (if necessarily, with trascription). First, note their translation. Try to make it as easy as possible for yourself to memorize the words. For that, fixed word combinations and phrases should not be broken up, but written down and studied as one word. So, phrases like "to take part in", "has major significance", "my name is ..." will take up one line each. Try to use markers of different colors. It helps memorization a great deal when the translation of a concrete word, like "man" or "house", is not written down with letters, but is represented by a simple picture. It can also be recommended that at least one out of 15 words on each page were unique to this language, if you wish, "exotic". ... And finally, grammar - we devote the lower half of the left page to it. Here you will copy the grammatical difficulties you've run into in the text, naturally, with the explanation found in a grammar manual. Try to reduce the explanation to a minimum, preferably to diagrams. Unwieldy constructions should be stripped of all the inessentials. Usually, after such a procedure you will be left with the backbone of 3 to 4 words, which is what should go into the notebook. If the contruction is just too difficult, don't beat your head on it. Mark the translation next to it and leave it for a better day. [to be continued] Edited by frenkeld on 24 February 2007 at 6:28pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7014 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 73 19 February 2007 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
I think that certain individuals are predisposed to learn in a particular style which might not work as well for others. However, as Linguamor mentioned, as long as you have a great deal of whatever input you choose, it shouldn't matter. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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