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History in different languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6049 days ago 146 posts - 152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 1 of 51 26 July 2009 at 10:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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This is a question for those of you who read several languages - if you read histories
in separate languages about the same events, is there a large gap between the viewpoints therein? Or does mainstream history stick to a general consensus? Or to put it another way, are there, in the main, schools of historical thought that are independent of nationality and language, or does most historical writing reflect a bias of origin? My whole worldview of history is shaped by my having grown up in the UK. I'm aware that there are things that I think of as fact, that I am aware, or not aware, of as being regarded differently elsewhere. But to what extent can I escape this worldview, and reach an objective truth untouched by national narrative? If I read dozens of history books in French and German would I come to see things in a different light? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dmg Diglot Senior Member Canada dgryski.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 7011 days ago 555 posts - 605 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch, Esperanto | Message 2 of 51 26 July 2009 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well, for example, England, the US, and Canada all teach that their respective countries won the war of 1812, whereas the truth is a little more complicated than that. That's the one example I know of, I'm sure there are more if you did some digging.
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| Woodpecker Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5811 days ago 351 posts - 590 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), Arabic (Egyptian) Studies: Arabic (classical) | Message 3 of 51 27 July 2009 at 12:59am | IP Logged | ||
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Good histories of the US don't really teach that, in my fairly limited experience. It's usually portrayed as a wash.
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| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 4 of 51 27 July 2009 at 2:45am | IP Logged | ||
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History varies quite a bit from country to country and can be a very touchy subject. There are many truths. so different parts of the complete picture is put forward in different countries, for different reasons.
The UK version of events between 1939 and 1945 is somewhat different from what I was taught in school in Sweden. I also understand that Americans have a slightly different version to that of the British. Not to mention Russia. My brother attended a Japanese-International school for a couple of years and was taught some things about the war which really surprised me when he mentioned them. In Asian countries that I have visited, I have read (translated into English, at parks and museums) their versions of wars there between 1950s - 70s. Their history was TOTALLY different from what I thought I knew as facts. It seems likely they are better informed since they lived through the events and their countries are still affected. Again, people may have family that was seriously affected by 20th century history. National pride and other strong feelings are stirred up. People with a sufficiently international worldview to study foreign languages voluntarily should be wise enough to realise that there are different ways of looking at historical events, and that there is never a completely black and white truth. If you want to know about these types of things, just buy a school history book of the 20th century in the language that you are studying, and prepare for a surprise... Edited by cordelia0507 on 27 July 2009 at 2:54am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6049 days ago 146 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 5 of 51 27 July 2009 at 5:01am | IP Logged | ||
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That's a good point about school textbooks; but I'm thinking as well of academic
historians, those who would probably be able to at least read other languages - how much of what they write can be traced back to theit national roots? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 6 of 51 27 July 2009 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Research papers and books published by people in the academic world QUITE OFTEN exactly follow the current political trend in the country that they are located in.
In some countries there is also a lot of influence from private sponsors, corporations etc. For instance: The Baltic states have done a U turn in history that is quite amazing. Post-Soviet, and with axes to grind both East (particularly) and West, a whole new take on History is emerging there. I came across a couple of books from there in translation and was pretty surprised, to put it mildly.. Historians are as affected by their own opinions and current political trends as the next person. If they have language skills they use those to pick the bits that support their position. Important Note: Those Historians that choose to go AGAINST current consensus in their country often seriously jeopardise their reputation or even their career by doing so, and no, this phenomenon is NOT limited to "dictatorships". Consider people with different views on WW2, for instance historians in the United States, UK or Russia! Or historians in China, Singapore or Japan. They'd think VERY carefully before publishing something that goes against current views. Really, have no illusions about this! If you want to get a nuanced picture of an historical event, you have to read about it in literature from DIFFERENT countries and ideally different eras too. A more lightweight example which is no longer sensitive: In Scandinavia a positive and detailed view of the Vikings are taught in school, with a focus on culture, daily life and their historical discoveries & exploratory journeys. But the UK and France teach that they were some brutes who came to steal, loiter and spread mayhem... Edited by cordelia0507 on 27 July 2009 at 3:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| krog Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6049 days ago 146 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Latin | Message 7 of 51 27 July 2009 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | ||
I think, if I remember rightly, that the first thing I learned about the Vikings (in school) was the raid on Lindesfarne; but I think at the moment the trend would be more to regard the Vikings as farmers and traders rather than just as pirates (whether that trend is reflected in school curricula I don't know). (By the way, I presume there's much more literature about the Vikings in Scandinavian languages than in English - would that be right?) EDIT: I'll give an example of someone who as far as I can tell, researches and then draws objective conclusions from the facts, without having an agenda - Ian Kershaw (having read Hitler:Hubris/Nemesis, admittedly about ten years ago now). From a non-British perspective, how is Kershaw regarded? Edited by krog on 27 July 2009 at 4:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 8 of 51 27 July 2009 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, History relating to the Vikings is a good example of how the view is STILL changing even 900 years later...
Of course there is a lot more literature about them in Scandinavia. To us, everything they did is our own history, whilst to anybody else they are just a blip in history, on the outskirts of the map. I don't know about anything the author you mentioned even though I live in the UK.. WW 2 is a seriously depressing topic, I think. (I hate to think about it and I would not voluntarily read a book about it...) I imagine that this author is not of much interest people outside the English speaking world. As a comparison: Did you ever read a book about the war by a Russian or German author? Edited by cordelia0507 on 27 July 2009 at 4:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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