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Obama as antichrist? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes  22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 9 of 16 19 August 2009 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
A few comments. First it’s the book of Revelation (singular) since the title in Greek αποκαλυψις ιησου χριστου (The Revelation of Jesus Christ) is in the singular. Second, John’s Greek was weaker than Paul’s but Peter’s Greek was also weak. The reason is that Paul was a very well educated and well traveled Roman citizen. Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire, thus, all well educated Romans would have a stronger command of Greek. John and Peter were not Roman Citizens and were not well traveled or well educated (they had a successful fishing business). Thus, their command of Greek would necessarily be weaker in comparison. Third, I don’t think that there is much opposition to the same Apostle John being the author of the Gospel of John, the Epistles of John, and Revelation. Historically, throughout the canonization process (the process of determining which books are part of the cannon of scripture) there have been some who did not want to include Revelation (including Martin Luther initially). However, these objections were more on the basis of the content of the book—people did not understand it because of the symbolism and subject matter. Fourth, the entire book is indeed a vision that was given to John of what was to happen in the distant future. He used his first century frame of reference and vocabulary to describe things that would take place many centuries later and in an entirely different cultural and linguistic setting. Thus, it does indeed seem hallucinogenic. Fifth, based on a reading of Revelation and Daniel from a Historical-Grammatical standpoint (i.e., as they would be understood based on the normal use of language and the historical context), the EU does indeed seem to be a form of “Revived Roman Empire” that could be ruled by the antichrist (not that I’m saying it is, but it certainly fits the prophecy). Also, the statue of Europa seated on the Bull, which stands outside the European parliament, is certainly reminiscent of the Harlot riding the Beast in Revelation 17: Europa seated on the Bull Sixth, I also agree that the fact of Israel being back in her native land is also noteworthy. This was not true from writing of Revelation in 90 AD until 1948. Israel being in the land and having her ancient system of sacrifices is an assumed fact in revelation when the antichrist comes on the scene. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5842 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 10 of 16 19 August 2009 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I am very glad that JWs post was allowed. This is an allround top-class post and I am tremendously impressed by JWs knowledge about ancient times/Greek. I learnt a lot just reading the post. Thanks Extralean and JW.
I forgot to say in my earlier post that the EU is based on the Treaty of Rome which laid down the foundation for todays union. It is also a peace initiative, which is also mentioned as being part the events that the Book of Revelation prophesizes about. Add this to the other facts. Interesting chances? Or not? Statistically speaking, well... However, like JW I prefer to give the EU the benefit of the doubt.. EDIT:
If anybody, like me, got a tiny bit freaked by all this, then as an antidote, read the above blog post from Paranday's original post and continue to support your president or your union in good faith. It's a very good article. Edited by cordelia0507 on 19 August 2009 at 10:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6276 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 11 of 16 19 August 2009 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I remember US Christian fundamentalists giving pride of place to the USSR as the Antichrists' main ally in the "last times", back in the 1970s. Nowadays, it seems to be Islam. Now, perhaps such views are based on divine revelation. Or perhaps it is only the old, old story of religion being a cover for politics. It does seem odd that the story changed when the geopolitics did.
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| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 12 of 16 19 August 2009 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You are welcome and thanks for the compliment. Thanks also to Extralean for magnanimously re-opening the thread and allowing a little latitude in this discussion.
Good points. It is indeed very important to maintain balance and not be too dogmatic about identifying current day politics with end times prophecies. The original article in this thread rightly points out some of the many errors people have made by doing this. However, you also can’t throw out these prophecies just because people have incorrectly applied them to current day politics. I firmly believe that, at some point, these prophecies will indeed line up perfectly with the politics of the day. Therefore, it is interesting to consider the possibility that perhaps that day is close at hand. Edited by patuco on 21 August 2009 at 5:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mrhenrik Triglot Moderator Norway Joined 6083 days ago 482 posts - 658 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, French Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 16 19 August 2009 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This is really not the place to discuss religion folks, please refrain from doing that. We've already seen what political discussions does to people's calm minds, but we've managed to stay clear of religious discussions thus far. I assume the intended topic for this thread was the translations leading to Obama again becoming antichrist, and also the Chinese characters used in names.
Again, please - no religious discussions. Feel free to PM me with comments/reactions of course. Edit: this was more directed towards the last/two last posts Edited by mrhenrik on 20 August 2009 at 10:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5842 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 14 of 16 20 August 2009 at 12:58am | IP Logged | ||||||||
This discussion is conducted so far well within these parameters since it concerns religion in the United states (foreign country to WillC and me) and Europe (foreign contry to JW). Furthermore, everybody is being completely respectful and approaching the subject from a more or less academic (as per guidelines) and objective manner. There have been four (I believe) moderator comments on this thread so far...! Perhaps due to the extremely unsuitable header. But still, there is a deja-vu feeling to those times when you are walking down the street and everything is looking calm and peaceful but there is a policeman standing in every corner looking very alert (happens a lot in London these days...) I'm going to leave this thread and back off for a while. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 15 of 16 20 August 2009 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I totally agree with Cordelia. I feel this discussion perfectly fits within the parameters of this sub-forum as she quoted above.
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| ExtraLean Triglot Senior Member France languagelearners.myf Joined 5998 days ago 897 posts - 880 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 16 of 16 20 August 2009 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hold on to your hats kids, we'll discuss it in the moderators forum and have a final response for you all reasonably soonish. In the meantime take a break, have a kitkat, a cup of tea and go study a language or two. Ok?
Thom. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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