|
 |
Our Father, who art in Heaven..... | ||
Tags: Multilingual | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Talairan Tetraglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6592 days ago 194 posts - 258 votes  Speaks: Afrikaans, English*, Gypsy/Romani, Dutch Studies: Spanish, Flemish, Galician, Aramaic | Message 17 of 21 18 January 2010 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Christus Rex has the Lord's Prayer in 1642 languages and dialects. I find it useful for comparing languages within a language family.
6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6122 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 18 of 21 18 January 2010 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | ||
Cool resource. Thanks for posting. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| didaskolos Newbie United States Joined 6842 days ago 10 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Ancient Greek, Modern Hebrew, Sign Language, Mandarin | Message 19 of 21 24 January 2010 at 5:14am | IP Logged | ||
|
Here are a few notes on the background of the Lord's Prayer which might be of interest.
The Lord's Prayer appears in two places in the New Testament. The first is in the 6th chapter of Matthew in verses 9 through 13. The second is in Luke 11:2-4. Given the nature of Jesus' traveling ministry, these probably refer to different instances when he was asked about how one should pray. It is likely that he was often asked similar questions from place to place and responded with similar answers which were tailored to the particular situation and audience. The net result is that there are two versions of what is called the Lord's Prayer in the New Testament itself. My impression is that the longer version in Matthew is the basis for most liturgical forms of the prayer with a few elements from the version in Luke sometimes added. Also, it is probable that many of the original sayings were in Aramaic. There have been some conjectures made as to what an original Aramaic form might have looked like. The Peshitta (Aramaic New Testament) which is rather old may shed some light on the original Aramaic forms as well. One conjectured example is that "Our Father" may have been a rather formal Greek translation of some variation of Abba (which is perhaps as informal as dad or daddy in English). "Abba" is how Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane (during a time of great distress) was started (Mark 14:36). Another conjectured example is that the Aramaic word for debt also carried a sense of sin. Hence, one Greek form of the prayer carries a literal translation of debt and the other translation uses the sense of the word as sin. (Caveat: I have no familiarity with Aramaic and am summarizing a few things that I have read.) To my ear and sensibilities, the more traditional forms have a dignity, reverence, and beauty of expression that newer forms do not have. On the other hand, I take from the New Testament forms and historical context that Jesus was perhaps suggesting to his listeners a radical new way of praying where God was addressed informally as one's spiritual Dad who could be asked for help with any of life's issues. This might suggest that the Lord's Prayer was intended as a template for building on rather than a set liturgy. This might make the "modern" versions more true to the original intent. In any case, it is a piece of literature (/writing/liturgy/poetry) that has a long and varied history in many languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6122 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 20 of 21 24 January 2010 at 6:07am | IP Logged | ||
I think you can take it in both ways. Matt 6:9 says: ουτως ουν προσευχεσθε υμεις Therefore you (yourselves) pray like this ουτως (houtos) meaning "in this way", "like this", "in this manner", i.e., a model prayer or template. However Luke 11:2 says: ειπεν δε αυτοις οταν προσευχησθε λεγετε And He did say to them whenever you pray say λεγω (lego) meaning "to say" thus to repeat verbatim However if you take the second option you have to be careful not to violate Matt 6:7 and make it βατταλογεω (battalogeo) or meaningless repetition, which sadly, in many churches, is exactly what it is. προσευχομενοι δε μη βατταλογησητε ωσπερ οι εθνικοι δοκουσιν γαρ οτι εν τη πολυλογια αυτων εισακουσθησονται And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words Matt 6:7 Edited by JW on 24 January 2010 at 6:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| goosefrabbas Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 6368 days ago 393 posts - 475 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German, Italian Personal Language Map | Message 21 of 21 24 January 2010 at 9:18am | IP Logged | ||
|
www.omniglot.com also has the prayer in many languages as an example of what the language looks like. Though for some languages it's a sample translation of the Declaration of Independence or the beginning of Genesis.
1 person has voted this message useful |
Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
