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Christkind, Santa, Дед Мороз | ||
Tags: Traditions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes  5 sounds | Message 1 of 22 14 December 2009 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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This article on the BBC news website recently caught my attention:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8405501.stm Apparently, in Austria there is an anti-Santa Claus campaign. According to some, Santa Claus is a commercial invention associated with Coca-Cola, and therefore it's best to get rid of the jolly old man. Instead of Santa / Father Christmas, they are promoting Christkind, which is sort of more abstract and anti-materialistic. The article says it is based on a tradition that comes from Austria and is older than Santa Claus. I think everybody is free to celebrate Christmas as he wishes, but it's totally wrong to say that Santa Claus is a commercial invention. In Bulgaria for example, gifts were delivered by "Father Frost" (Дядо Мраз, or Дед Мoроз in Russian) on 31 December. Nowadays, Father Frost is replaced by Father Christmas (Дядо Коледа), and the date changed to 25 December. However, he's clearly the same guy, with red outfit, reindeer and all; And Father Frost is a very ancient mythical figure that dates back to pagan times. So in light of this, I totally disagree that Santa Claus is invented by Coca-Cola. Maybe that's the case for the name "Santa Claus", as opposed to "Father Christmas", but the custom itself is very old. I find it very strange, and rather sad really, that people in Austria are trying to get rid of him. What do you think about this? Is Santa Claus / Father Christmas celebrated in your country or you have some other custom. Edited by Sennin on 14 December 2009 at 11:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5909 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 2 of 22 14 December 2009 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In Norway kids might get a present from 'Santa' on the morning of the 24th (and maybe chocolate and some tangerines too if they've put out a stocking), Santa might also make an appearance on the evening of the 24th (our main Christmas celebration). Personally, if I have children I will not try to make them believe in Santa, because I object to lying to kids in that way, and I've seen a child feel utterly betrayed by his parents after finding out he'd been lied to for years. Not an easy thing to deal with for a child.
As the situation is now, at least in my country, there's not much of a connection between the origin of the character and how kids think of him now. I don't know how much better Christkind would be though - I mean, what does that even mean? And how would that work for people who aren't devout Christians, now that Christmas (at least where I live) is in large part more about the time spent with family than about anything Christianity-related? But if people are trying to make Christmas less of a commercial thing then I guess it's possible that might take things in a good direction. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 3 of 22 15 December 2009 at 1:50am | IP Logged | |||||
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In Sweden before Santa Claus we had something called "Julbocken" (the Christmas goat) a very mysterious wild creature who lived in the forest and who normal people must never look for...
His normal method of operation was to make some goat-like sound (rather scary!) then throw the presents through the front door and disappear. His gifts were in brown paper (recycle-type) and sans ribbons and fancy wrapping. Personally I was scared of him but my grandparents insisted that he was the one who delivered the presents in their house, not Santa Claus. As a kid I knew that Santa was a fraud but with the goat I wasn't so sure. GO AUSTRIANS!!! Of course Santa Claus is a commercial fraud. Really too silly and should be scrapped -- at least in countries that have OLDER AND BETTER traditions already. The Americans are welcome to have him - I'd be happy to see the back of him. He never meant anything to me other than a silly mask on a stranger. Like the Austrians, we have our own traditions! Why do we need America's Coca Cola mascot? (That's exactly what he was, the Coca Cola company admits it themselves.) I think lots of people from Eastern Europe are still in the "first love" phase with all things American, including American style traditions and beverages. That's their problem (or pleasure) and not for me to judge.. But personally, if I was Bulgarian, I'd stick with Ded Moroz (Haha Sennin, when I was a kid I thought he was the Russian Santa... There is an old film with him, pretty good but "scary". I guess it's the same figure, right? ) 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 newyorkeric Diglot Moderator Singapore Joined 6379 days ago 1598 posts - 2174 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Mandarin, Malay Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 22 15 December 2009 at 1:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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Coca Cola did not invent Santa Claus. http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/santa/cocacola.asp
7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 5 of 22 15 December 2009 at 1:59am | IP Logged | |||||
I'm not in love with all things American but in any case that's beyond the point. In my mind Дядо Мраз, Santa Claus, and Father Christmas are several different names for the same thing. Personally, I like the name Дядо Мраз/Дед Мороз the most, I think it's really cool ( or frosty, haha ) but Santa Claus is also ok with me. Дядо Мраз is "Soviet" in the sense that it was adopted in Bulgaria during soviet times. He is based on Slavic mythology, and in a sense that makes him pan-Slavic. When I was a kid, my grandfather used to dress up as Дядо Мраз, especially for me, so it is not entirely a fictive figure and I don't feel cheated.
That's a very interesting myth. Brutal and scary, as all pagan customs should be :). It would be interesting if all forum members share different myths like this one, and different names for Father Christmas that are used in their respective countries. Edited by Sennin on 15 December 2009 at 2:28am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sennin Senior Member Bulgaria Joined 6034 days ago 1457 posts - 1759 votes 5 sounds | Message 6 of 22 15 December 2009 at 2:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ok, Let's keep politics down to a minimum and focus on interesting traditions and different names for Дядо Мраз / Дед Мороз / Père Noël / Father Christmas / Santa Claus, you name it. Edited by Sennin on 15 December 2009 at 2:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6703 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 7 of 22 15 December 2009 at 3:32am | IP Logged | |||||
In Danish we have "Julemanden" (the yule man) and his reindeer Rudolph and a lot of "nisser", which roughly are the Danish equivalent of the Swedish "tomtar". I have the impression that these figures are as vital to the Danish conception of Christmas as the Xmas beer, the fat old yule man and his junk producing factories on Greenland (though Rudolph and his advertizing agency seem to live near Rovaniemi in Finland - please don't tell any Dane this!). Praeterea censeo Nataliciam Christi esse delendam. Edited by Iversen on 15 December 2009 at 4:11am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Envinyatar Diglot Senior Member Guatemala Joined 5536 days ago 147 posts - 240 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 8 of 22 15 December 2009 at 4:34am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't like this. Who are you to claim that some traditions are "better" than others? Seriously, your USA hatred is going too far. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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