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Best time to do immersion | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Immersion, Schools & Certificates |  | |
| Desacrator48 Groupie United States Joined 5152 days ago 93 posts - 127 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 1 of 9 06 August 2010 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have a question about immersion. Because immersion is probably the most expensive way to learn a language, but yet at the same time a valuable resource to utilize, the question becomes when is the best time to start?
In my case with French, I would want to spend some time in say Paris learning the language. Because this can be expensive, let's set the French-only immersion period at 1 month. Now my question is when in my progress with the language would be the MOST RESOURCEFUL time for me to spend one month in France. Obviously the answer wouldn't be at the very beginning because I could easily learn the new phrases and words at home on my computer. Here the ratio of money spent (1 month in Paris) to the amount of French learned (small because you are just a newbie) would not be high enough to justify going all the way to France on a budget. In my case, I am just about to start with Pimsleur III French. Pimsleur has been really only my first introduction to the language. Once I finish Pimsleur III, I will spend up to 6 months intensively doing Assimil New French with Ease. By this time, according to the box, I would be at about a B2 level. This whole process should be about 10-11 months into my study of French. Would now be the good time to spend that 1 month in France to really take my intermediate level into an advanced one? Or would it be more bang-for-my-buck for me to hold off some more until I reach an advanced level at home, and then only utilize the Immersion resource to reach native-like fluency? I'm sorry for the long intro, but I really wanted to clarify what I mean for me when I ask if spending money for a month in France is more economical in learning the language when going from intermediate to advanced or when going from advanced to native-like fluency. -Steven 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| deej Tetraglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5182 days ago 31 posts - 38 votes Speaks: Hindi, English*, Italian, French | Message 2 of 9 07 August 2010 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||
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I would say advanced to native-like fluency, because that is a much harder step than
going from intermediate to advanced fluency, in my experience, though it depends on your aims(how badly you want to reach native-like fluency). I speak French decently, but recently have been trying to really get it up to near native fluency(though at the same time I have been revising my other languages which has detracted from it) and the sheer amount of words/expressions to learn is ridiculous, to know every idiom, every colloquial word, every nuance of each word would take years of study for me, so I'm still nowhere near my goal of native-ish fluency. Based on this, I would say use it to go from advanced towards native standard, but others would have more experience. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jtdotto Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5073 days ago 73 posts - 172 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, German | Message 3 of 9 07 August 2010 at 12:19am | IP Logged | ||
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One of the biggest determinants of how profitable your time abroad will be is the way you spend that time in the
country. Will you be with native speakers the entire time? Are they sympathetic listeners or will they expect you speak fluent French? Will you be traveling alone? Will you have friends there? What do you plan on doing? I spent ten months in Korea last year, after having done 1 year and a third of our university program in the span of 6 months. Finally having a chance to hear and use what I had crammed into my brain in the target language country was liberating and enlightening. Everything I already knew started to flow a bit smoother, but then the next problem arose - how to improve? I lived at an international dorm and most of my friends were foreigners, even though I tried to spend most of my time with Koreans (English speaking Koreans). This frustrated me for a while, until I got an opportunity to train taekwondo at an elite physical edu/sport university. All the taekwondo athletes I encountered were world class in their sport - and knew not a lick of English. This is where my conversational ability (speaking and listening) started to progress, and eventually skyrocket compared to when I first arrived in Korea. By the end of my ten months I had good friendships with people who did not know my mother tongue. Fast forward to the beginning of July '10. I board another plane for Korea for three weeks and I can already tell that I've improved well beyond my level when I returned to the US. I can attribute this mostly to finding intelligent, efficient study techniques (thanks to forums like these, and Prof. Arguelles), and plenty of Korean speakers in Seattle. But I can also attribute it to the firm foundation I was able to set in the best of the many environments I encountered while in Seoul. To sum it up, if you can find a challenging yet sympathetic environment while you're abroad, you should use your time to focus on the application of the conversational tools you've learned, as soon as you have them. It will make your language study after that much more enjoyable. High intermediate/low advanced territory is hashed out with books and a select few language partners/friends - the high elementary/low intermediate is ripe for experiential learning. This is just my opinion from experience, I'm curious to see what more seasoned learners have to say... 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| aarontp Groupie United States Joined 5111 days ago 94 posts - 139 votes | Message 4 of 9 07 August 2010 at 1:50am | IP Logged | ||
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Have you considered a longer stay somewhere other than Paris? Maybe a cheaper part of
France, or even a French speaking part of Canada? I imagine you would even encounter fewer English speakers in less cosmopolitan parts of France. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6793 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 5 of 9 07 August 2010 at 2:30am | IP Logged | ||
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I think around B2 is the perfect time for language immersion. At this time it seems common for language learners to 'plateau', and it's hard to get past this point with books and programs alone, while at the same time native media might still feel a little out of reach (depending on the methods you've used to reach that level).
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| Desacrator48 Groupie United States Joined 5152 days ago 93 posts - 127 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 6 of 9 07 August 2010 at 8:41am | IP Logged | ||
I chose around a month for me because I work, and that's about the most one can take on vacation. I also am kind of stuck on France (not necessarily Paris) because I really want to go back there and haven't been since 1997. So that's why not such much eastern Canada, even though it is closer in a sense, but not by as much since I live in Los Angeles. Also, I'm stuck (in the good sense) on learning the French-French way of speaking and pronunciation, so I wouldn't really want to be surrounded by Quebec-speakers at that point. As for the other language I'm working on, Spanish, now here's a language I don't have to go far to be surrounded by....haha. But it's the only one we've got here in my part of the world, so it doesn't seem as exotic to me as French. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dlb Triglot Groupie Joined 5623 days ago 44 posts - 52 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Greek, Italian | Message 7 of 9 07 August 2010 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've done lots of immersion programs over the years and I would agree that B1 or B2 is a good time for a first immersion experience in the target language. It helps make that transition from language as an academic pursuit to actually thinking in the language. I would also recommend not staying in Paris for your first visit, too much English. France has lots of small cities where there is less English spoken, friendlier people and thus more opportunities to practice French. They are also less expensive. Also stay with a family or sometimes they have opportunities to stay with native speaking local students. Students that stay in house with other non-native students generally just end up speaking English. I don't know how old you are? You say you are working, but you are never too old to stay with a family. It is a great way to practice French and gain insight into another culture. Good Luck with your studies. Language immersion is one of my favorite experiences.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6547 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 8 of 9 07 August 2010 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would generally say: when you can have conversations with the French in French, and that means at least basic fluency, but not necessarily advanced fluency. Given the expense involved in crossing the Atlantic Ocean it isn't worth going there too early.
There are however two situations where it can be relevant to go to France earlier: 1) if you are taking a fulltime immersion course, - during the study period you are supposed to attain at least basic fluency. But take care: if you spend the whole time speaking English with other students or your teacher then it is a total waste of time. 2) If you live in Europe (unlike Desecrator) then it doesn't cost much more to go to France than to take a holiday at home, thanks to the cheap flights. Then it is worthwhile to take a tour during the later intermediate stage where you still can't say everything in French, but you can listen to native speakers and think in French, and sometimes you can also use your French. Such a whirlwind trip can function as an efficient booster even before you are ready for a fully monolingual stay in the country. Edited by Iversen on 07 August 2010 at 3:53pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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