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How did people learn Latin in Europe? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5957 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes  Studies: French | Message 18 of 36 26 February 2011 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I was surprised like you to learn that Roman soldiers spoke English as well (though strictly speaking they were in Roman-occupied territory rather than Rome - hence the "Romans go home" graffiti). I was even more amazed to have learned that they had video capability back then, but there is a lot about technology I don't understand. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6012 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 19 of 36 26 February 2011 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
In fact, there was a time when "literate" meant "can read Latin". Texts say that one of the medieval kings of England (I can't remember which one) was illiterate until he was 12, but it is well documented that he used to read books while sitting on his mother's knee. (And this isn't a false memory or hearsay -- it was mentioned in my university course on the history and development of English.)
I disagree. If you go to France or Spain or Italy, you will see exactly what happens when people try to pick up a foreign language just by ear. Loss of cases, loss of genders, calquing of local-language expressions into the language. Meanwhile, Latin taught explicitly by tutors and in monasteries stayed the same. Those market traders you mention speak lots of languages, but not very well. There language never gets to the level of a suitable model for learners. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Raye Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5155 days ago 37 posts - 51 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: DutchB1 | Message 20 of 36 27 February 2011 at 1:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This is a fascinating and perhaps even heartbreaking subject. I love seeing the old Latin grammar lessons and discussions in my Old English reader (Aelfric’s Colloquy and the like, mentioned above). It’s like finding a 1500 year old linguistics discussion conducted in, and about, two dead languages! Yet at the same time there’s a sadness to think how excluded most people of the time must have been from the delights and benefits of reading and writing, and how included they might have been if they’d been allowed to use more of their own language and not have had Latin forced upon them.
What was the transmission process like in the Romance language area, where there might have been less acute awareness of Latin as being “other” as there was in Britain? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| psy88 Senior Member United States Joined 5592 days ago 469 posts - 882 votes Studies: Spanish*, Japanese, Latin, French | Message 21 of 36 27 February 2011 at 1:59am | IP Logged | ||||||||
And British English no less! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tritone Senior Member United States reflectionsinpo Joined 6121 days ago 246 posts - 385 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, French | Message 22 of 36 27 February 2011 at 3:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm well aware of the fact that people can learn living languages without books, through actual social interaction. Latin, however was a dead language, that no one spoke, and had to be taught in some kind of formal manner. I'm curious as to what this process was. Edited by tritone on 27 February 2011 at 3:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tritone Senior Member United States reflectionsinpo Joined 6121 days ago 246 posts - 385 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, French | Message 23 of 36 27 February 2011 at 3:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||
..interesting. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mr_chinnery Senior Member England Joined 5758 days ago 202 posts - 297 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 24 of 36 01 March 2011 at 12:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I disagree. The people who knew latin were probably the priests and upper echelons of society who actually needed to know it. There weren't plenty of people who understood latin at all. This was one of the ways the church exerted its influence: by teaching in a language nobody understood. By the early medieval period, vulgar latin had already started to evolve into todays romance languages, and vulgar latin was completely different to the classical variety. I would imagine learning latin today from someone who is fluent (e.g. a latin teacher, king or a priest) would be a similar experience to learning from someone who was fluent (e.g. a latin teacher, king or a priest) a thousand years ago, and they would certainly use books. "The term Medieval Latin refers to the written Latin in use during that portion of the post-classical period when no corresponding Latin vernacular existed" (from Wikipedia). 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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