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More complex sound in primitive society? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4953 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 5 11 November 2011 at 12:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Thi is a totally lay person's observation, but I was reading about the Ubykh language and it's astounding number of consonants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubykh_phonology This lead me to this, somehow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_language (it IS Wikipedia, so I guess this should be verified, but read this): In 2003 the press widely reported suggestions by Alec Knight and Joanna Mountain of Stanford University that the original human language may have had clicks. The evidence for this is genetic: speakers of Juǀʼhoan and Hadza have the most divergent known mitochondrial DNA of any human populations, suggesting that they were the first, or at least among the first, surviving peoples to have split off the family tree. In other words, the three primary genetic divisions of humanity are the Hadzabe, the Juǀʼhoansi and relatives, and everyone else. Since two of the three groups speak languages with clicks, perhaps their common ancestral language, which by implication is the ancestral language for all humankind, had clicks as well. If accurate as read, that is simply fascinating to me, specially that DNA stuff. But, for the main point here: it seems that these "hunter-gatherer" languages, not just in Africa, but in Australasia, and the Americas, had EXTREMELY complex sounds and consonants: tons of affricates, glottals, velars and things that are unheard of in most IE languages like clicks, ejectives and stuff. So, based on such "observations", does it not seem that the more substistence level the society, the more complex their sound system? Has there been any study or though on this, IF my inference is correct? I tried google but maybe I'm not picking the correct search words. Perhaps someone here has some reading material or even their own opinion on this. Thanks! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6586 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 2 of 5 11 November 2011 at 9:35am | IP Logged | ||
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I think it's down to contact with other languages, rather than being "primitive". Grammar is known to simplify from contact with other languages, and I suspect the same is true of phonology.
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5060 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 3 of 5 11 November 2011 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | ||
What do you mean by simplifying grammar? The phonology can change, but simplify, I think. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4953 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 4 of 5 11 November 2011 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | ||
I think you misunderstood, I meant the form of living is more primitive. Amazon tribes, African bushmen, it's a more primitive existence no one could say otherwise. Yet they have such complex phonologies for the most part, I guess what I am wondering is why is that and does it perhaps have a survival purpose to have such diverse sounds. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Carlucio Triglot Groupie BrazilRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4862 days ago 70 posts - 113 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishC1, Spanish Studies: Mandarin | Message 5 of 5 05 December 2011 at 8:02am | IP Logged | ||
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The process of evolution of languages is more visible in aglutination languages, in old Tupi, for example, many of the most common words are monosyllabic,examples:
a = head / round ã = shadow / ghost po = hand sy = mother / source u = food y = water, river Concepts more complex like panema(unhealth) forms bigger words and the fusion of concepts make words even bigger. Y(water) + panema(unhealth) = Sea water. Its very common in Brazil to see names of cities or neighbourhoods which came from tupi and are huge, examples: The city of Itaquaquecetuba: takûara + kesé + tyba (bamboo + knife + collective mark): where bamboo knives are made. Umuarama (ũbuarama, from ũbu + arama): where the cacti will grow. I seriously recomend this amazing article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupi_language Edited by Carlucio on 05 December 2011 at 8:03am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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