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Using non-native languages... | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6894 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes  5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 9 of 20 08 December 2012 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've used lots of learning materials in English and in German, recently I've been using
French-based Assimil too. I think I actually have more language books in En/De than in Polish. I also use bilingual dictionaries with English or German instead of Polish if I don't have a good Polish-TL dictionary. I don't think it affected my new languages in any significant way. I usually don't learn much about my already-mastered languages, apart from some new vocabulary here and there, which has been mentioned by others above. Like emk, I barely notice that the course is not in my native language (at least if it's English- or German-based, with French it's a little bit trickier, yet totally doable). As Ogrim has written, it all depends on your level in the languages you use to learn other languages. It may also depend on the method: I wouldn't be comfortable using an audio-course like Michel Thomas with a French base, yet I had no problems whatsoever while using it in English (but then again, it has to do with the language level after all). If I have a choice, I prefer to use courses with a base in a language related to the target one. This way there are fewer redundant grammar explanations, and vocabulary cognates tend to stick more easily. I can't stand some English-based courses of Slavic languages because of how they tend to explain things that are so obvious to me as a Polish speaker. Edited by Julie on 09 December 2012 at 12:02am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5169 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 10 of 20 20 December 2012 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am doing it a lot, you know.
There are some nice language courses in Japanese or Chinese over there. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7147 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 11 of 20 20 December 2012 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | ||
Learning the Saamic languages on my own has been the first time where the process has involved only material in an intermediary language that's not my native one (in this instance all of my textbooks, handouts and dictionaries have been in Finnish). Even though I'd rank myself as only a high-beginner in Finnish, I can bridge the gap using my Finnish-English dictionaries. You can get a sense of what I've gone through by following my log entries starting here for Inari Saami and here for Northern Saami. I also agree with Serpent that it can be quite enlightening to check out (if not use actively) learning material for your target language that's meant for speakers of another language even if you're far from fluency/high proficiency in that other language. A recent example was when I browsed a textbook for Estonian meant for Finns as it described the Estonian sounds 'b, d, g'. Unlike my Anglospheric textbooks of Estonian which didn't describe thing as I was hearing them in native speech (basically the books reported that Estonian 'b, d, g' sound almost like English 'b, d, g' respectively), the Finnish description made a lot more sense (i.e. Finns are taught that the Estonian 'b, d, g' sound almost like Finnish 'p, t, k' which makes sense when considering consonant gradation which is used in both languages). In addition I've posted elsewhere about the usefulness of Finnish-Estonian or Croatian-German dictionaries for monolingual English learners of Finnish or BCMS because of the inclusion of important grammatical information of entries that's inexplicably left out of the corresponding bilingual dictionaries of those target languages for speakers of English. Check out also this thread and poll on this subject. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5169 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 12 of 20 23 December 2012 at 11:47am | IP Logged | ||
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I think I haven't writen a very informative post the day before yesterday, so to add the details, I think learning using non native language sometimes is a necessity, when you are not an English speaker.
Actually even if you are, there are some languages you cannot access, for example those spoken in the territory of Russia or China, without knowlegde of Russian or Chinese you won't go very far. Moreover it's a great fun to study using an Asian language (Japanese or Chinese, as there is not much to find in Korean), at least for me. You can find some great material in Japanese or Chinese, for example some Jp universities offer free online courses in a vast array of tongues, including Marathi, Uyghur and Lao, with videos and whatnot. It's a really good feeling if you can say to yourself 'hey! I am studying Mongolian through Japanese! I am a genius!'. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6052 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 13 of 20 23 December 2012 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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Five-sided answer:
#1 The practical side: there are good materials for English, French and German; reasonable ones for Spanish; and a few ones for Italian. It has got to do with not being a market for "exotic" languages. You can also find (occasionally) some dictionaries for Ukrainian, Urdu or some other immigrant nation's language. #2 The trendy side: nowadays, a small number of Portuguese learn non-mainstream languages (see my definition here). There are a few materials available, but only in English and French (German being difficult for us). #3 The really interesting side: in the 1400s and the 1500s, priests working for the Portuguese Crown compiled an impressive array of bilingual dictionaries. Those served the dual purpose of the time: commerce and evangelisation. It's hard to imagine the scope: every coastal place from here to Japan (and also mainland Brazil) was addressed. A few years ago, I attended an exhibit in our National Library about this subject. I bought the catalogue and also a fac-simile of an Arabic dictionary (biased but quite good). All this cultural heritage is little known, even here. #4 The "original question" side: if you're not fluent in either English, French, or German, learning new languages (apart from Spanish or Italian) is more or less impossible. #5 The obvious side: Look at HTLAL. If you were not fluent in English, you had two choices: a) contribute in the multilingual lounge (which, let's face it, is not that dynamic per se); or b) leave and search for another forum in your native language. My reason for saying this: I don't see a TAC team for English. Edited by Luso on 23 December 2012 at 7:44pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| yuehan Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 4369 days ago 12 posts - 20 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Mandarin, Greek, French, Indonesian, Haitian Creole, Modern Hebrew, Somali, Arabic (Levantine) | Message 14 of 20 24 December 2012 at 6:06am | IP Logged | ||
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I have been studying Mandarin through Spanish and German at times (although chiefly
through English). Since I don't have many opportunities to use Spanish or German throughout the day, especially if I spend that time studying Mandarin, then I find that it's a great way to keep the other languages from slipping away. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6588 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 15 of 20 24 December 2012 at 8:11am | IP Logged | ||
Edited by Serpent on 24 December 2012 at 8:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5325 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 16 of 20 24 December 2012 at 8:40am | IP Logged | ||
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Like is already said, when you are a Norwegian, you do not have much choice. I have used English, French,
Swedish, Danish, German and Spanish to learn other languages. As long as it s a language you speak reasonably well, it is not a problem. It's like reading a book or watching a film in another language. After a little while you forget about it. My choice of study material would be so limited if I were to use my native language only, that I think I would have given up. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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