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New Super Challenge Discussion thread2014 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4891 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 289 of 766 19 May 2014 at 5:05am | IP Logged | |||||
The thought of reading Balzac again makes me shudder ... I see him referred to in so many other works (e.g. Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress, a couple French New Wave movies, etc), and I think: have they actually read him? Or are they just using "Balzac" as a way to signify that the main character is smart? In general, though, I'm pro-classics, even early on. I lost a lot of ground slowly working my way through some big novels, but when I went back to the fun stuff it was a breeze. I think it's good to alternate the two! Just not with Balzac. Or Stendhal. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| VivianJ5 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4264 days ago 81 posts - 133 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 290 of 766 19 May 2014 at 10:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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I still have bad memories from trying to read "Pere Goriot" in my second-year French class...I actually ended up
reading the book in an English translation I found in our university library, reading next to the French. Little did I know I was doing my own parallel translation. I find parallel translations incredibly helpful, and will prepare my own if I can find a decently translated copy of an English novel. Of course, translations are hit-or-miss: sometimes whole paragraphs are left out, and it's not always clear why; you have to understand enough of the L2 to realize that things are not quite lining up. But, you'll laugh kanewai, but I actually enjoy reading Balzac now that I've finally reached a level where I can appreciate the story, and am not struggling with the language. Looking up every other word is not conducive to understanding plot, in my opinion. I think that's where language teachers miss the boat, and something I tried to avoid in the classroom: don't be forcing classic literature on to unsuspecting language learners if the vocabulary level is going to get in the way of the story. As sfuqua mentioned, Hemingway works because his language uses simple words and uncomplicated sentences, but the impact is immense. And there is no shame in reading Nancy Drew, or the Hardy boys, or Mary Higgins Clark (my personal favorite!), if the story pulls you in enough that you forget the language is a challenge. The exposure is everything. I wish more language teachers understand that... 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 291 of 766 19 May 2014 at 11:06am | IP Logged | |||||
Ok. I grew up on Nancy Drew (I must have 50 of those books) and the Hardy boys, but what is Mary Higgins Clark? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6599 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 292 of 766 19 May 2014 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
One more problem is that beginners generally need to read intensively, ie look up everything and make sure they understand every little detail, but while it might be useful to read a page of text like that, the natural progression *seems to be* textbooks/articles, short stories, novels. But it doesn't work like that. It's well-known that a novel gets easier as you continue reading (and on a micro-level it's true about shorter texts too), so if you read short stuff you miss out on these moments when you've got used to the language and can read with ease. I suppose the most successful classroom learners develop their own strategies and in many cases reinvent the wheel. They learn what to look up and where to be naughty and skip the word :-) Edited by Serpent on 19 May 2014 at 3:28pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 293 of 766 19 May 2014 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There was a reason why I spoke about books when I created the Super Challenge. I have allowed shorter texts, but personally I stick to books only, which I read without looking up too much. Not beacause I understand everything, but because I want the flow.
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| VivianJ5 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4264 days ago 81 posts - 133 votes Speaks: English*, French | Message 294 of 766 19 May 2014 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Solfrid, Mary Higgins Clark is an author known for her mysteries, sometimes involving murder, usually with a woman
who gets into trouble somehow because someone is stalking her, or something from the the past hasn't been resolved...I haven't read all her books (and the ones I have read have been French translations), but the story line is predictable, and the language is not too difficult. Once you've read one, you find all the rest get easier and easier, because the plots are similar and the vocabulary is pretty much the same. A lot like the Nancy Drews, but for adults! And I agree for the most part with your "books only," even if I don't always follow it - sometimes the news is a nice break. But once you understand one author's use of language, reading other works of the same author just becomes easier, and you can get into a flow not possible with shorter texts. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5393 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 295 of 766 19 May 2014 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
I, too, find parallel texts very useful. There's a lot of vocabulary that just doesn't need to be retained/looked up so it helps to have a copy to glance over at to find out that "cocher" means "coachman" for example. I read through Harry Potter in Spanish using parallel texts and it was good for getting down basic patterns and some common vocabulary. Later, I started working more intensively with some of my favorite excerpts looking up words/phrases and working with the audio book. I was pretty happy with this process and plan on doing the same with the Irish translation (if only I could get an audio version...). And I, too, enjoyed Balzac :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4891 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 296 of 766 19 May 2014 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's strange that in college we were told that using parallel texts would hurt our
French, and that we should not ever use them. In retrospect, it was perhaps the worst language-learning advice I've ever heard.
I'm still looking for the original French source for that. And one day I'll tackle more Balzac - I think the man himself is fascinating, and I actually am interested to see what happens to some of the characters, especially the super villain Vautrin. And I have his complete works ($1.99 on kindle!). I'm curious to hear what people's experiences with podcasts were in the last SC. I've been listening to a lot this past week, and I find that my comprehension is really erratic; usually I'm just below having complete comprehension, and I can follow the general thread but miss the details. Sometime I wonder if it's useful ... but I am inspired by posts like this:
1 person has voted this message useful |
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