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| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5205 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 97 of 129 03 June 2015 at 1:17pm | IP Logged |
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Well done for the exam and also the successful tutoring session. Regarding your Swedish boyfriend, it seems quite common for people to feel a bit uncomfortable practising the native language of somebody they're close to with that person. Various factors there, like that you're probably just used to speaking English and that because of the personal connection you feel more embarrassed about mistakes than if it were just a random Swede or a tutor who you're paying to help you. If it's a third language like German then there's less of that personal aspect so it feels easier. Even people like emk who do speak their partner's language with them still look to tutors/exchanges for extra practise and for help with specific subjects or for exams.
I'm sure I've mentioned before that I almost always speak English with my Italian flatmate, partly because we're used to it, partly because her English level is very high, partly because that's her preference but also to me it feels more natural. I've had similar thoughts, "isn't it stupid to pay tutors or go out looking to meet Italians when there's one right in my house", but it's not really stupid, it's just how the situation is. I plan to learn Greek in the future, and I doubt that I'll feel comfortable practising with my Greek father until I have a half-decent level. Edited by garyb on 03 June 2015 at 1:18pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3854 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 98 of 129 03 June 2015 at 1:25pm | IP Logged |
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To be honest, I can't really imagine it either, and I'm living it. Give me back the student life, please! I'm kind of torn between becoming a real human with one of those weird 'full time job' thingies or studying for a Masters in the Netherlands next year, hence all of the sudden Dutch. And yeah, very weird choice to read to Swedish boyfriend in German, especially as he only understands a few words here and there. I should learn to prioritise more, perhaps!
I'm really enjoying Tintenherz right now, and it isn't too hard to understand, even when I am not parallel reading. Right now I am mostly content with just getting the gist and a few nuances on top of that, and it is going very well for me. Much, much easier than Der kleine Hobbit! --- Yesterday, while on the train into town I managed to write around 324 words in Swedish for this month's output challenge. YAY! I had been kind of anxious about starting, as I am a terrible diarist, but once I started it was really hard to stop. There were a few times when I couldn't phrase something the exact way I wanted, and as I was underground I simply had to think of circumlocutions. But that's the great thing about having written it all down: I can easily look over what I have written, and then search up alternatives. This means that' altogether, I have written around 1000 words for the output challenge! So, only 49,000 more to go... I managed to read a little more from Tintenherz on the train home, and to do a few more lessons from the online Dutch course today, but little else. I have been exhausted all morning, and will be going to visit my nan very soon, so I probably won't have time for any more in depth study today. Perhaps I should take something in Swedish with me... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3854 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 99 of 129 05 June 2015 at 1:17am | IP Logged |
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@garyb - looks like I mised your message this time round, sorry! Yeah, I think the embarrassment thing definitely plays a big role. Although I know he doesn't mind, and he quite likes me speaking Swedish, I still very self conscious about speaking with him (mostly because of accent worries). This is probably part of my wider problem with speaking Swedish. It also has a lot to do with the fact that his English is way better than mine, and I often actually have to ask him to help me/read over essays and things. Strangely enough, I'm quite happy to gibber Tarzan German to all and sundry, probably because I have been told on several occasions that when I speak German I sound like someone who knows what they're saying. So, I have learnt my lesson: in order to talk more freely, I must be more conceited about my abilities!
Really, though, I should make a greater effort at speaking Swedish. I also understand your roommate situation - I'm sure I have also mentioned that my French roommate and I only speak in English. (In fact, last time I asked her to speak french with me she replied: 'haha I don't speak French, sorry.' She is about as supportive of me learning French as she could be, given the fact that she doesn't understand why anyone would choose to learn/speak French if they didn't have to. But she absolutely refuses to talk to me in French, and has learnt how to tune out my speaking French to her (unless I do so with an awful English accent.) ... Speaking of French roommates! In less than twelve hours I will be on the plane to Tours. I still haven't finished packing, and haven't done any of the noble 'brush up my French' things that I intended to do before embarking. Looks like I will just have to dive in head first and hope for the best... In other news, I read twelve pages of Swedish today. I am still really behind on Tadoku, and I could do more, but this is a busy and rather fatiguing week, so I'll have to hold out until next week before I make any real progress. EDIT: In other, other news, I got provisional results back from my essays of this year. Looks like I'll be graduating with a 2i, which means a lot as I did so dismally in my first two years of the degree. I am still waiting on the results for the exams, and they have taken down my in year assessment results for French, but I think that they will be okay. Probably not great, but good enough. Edited by Elenia on 05 June 2015 at 1:20am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5205 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 100 of 129 05 June 2015 at 10:34am | IP Logged |
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I remember you talking about that experience, although I hadn't realised she was your roommate. I'm still amazed by how many people have such negative attitudes towards those who learn their languages. I'd never refuse to speak English with a learner; okay, English is so useful and important that the situation is different, but still. My flatmate is supportive of my efforts and doesn't refuse as such, if I came home one day and started speaking Italian I'm sure she'd indulge me, but it just feels kinda awkward and unnatural. That could partly just be in my head though.
Enjoy France. Every time I go abroad I feel like I've not done as much preparation as I'd have liked, but at the end of the day it's the steady work over the years that counts, not an extra few hours before leaving. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3854 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 101 of 129 15 June 2015 at 2:16am | IP Logged |
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@garyb - For me, the thing that I find the saddest is that she hates French so much, although I can understand the reasons why. It is not her mother tongue (her mother is an English speaker, which probably why she prefers English), but it is still a big part of her.
I enjoyed France very much - much more than when I lived there! I did not really speak much French at all, apart from on the final day when we went to a favourite creperie of ours and I did pretty much all of the talking and even got a little chummy our waiter a bit after the meal. Although my ex-roommates new roommate had a party on one of the nights, I spoke absolutely no French. Comprehension was a big issue, but I also didn't have very much to say - a first. Otherwise, I have been focusing most of my attention on the Dutch course, although I am quite behind thanks to my trip and a very full week. I quite like Dutch. It feels pretty much like a mix of all my languages so far, and I also get a bit of passive exposure to it from Dutch/Flemish friends on Facebook. The pronunciation, however, is another beast entirely. And I thought Swedish was hard! Aside from this, I have been trying to keep up with Duolingo, but my Swedish tree needs a lot of attention, and so I have spent all of my time working on that. I have also only been reading Låt den rätta komma in recently, as I've been taking it with me on journeys. I choose it because the Swedish is MUCH easier to follow, and although I am usually more than okay with not understanding much of what I read, I have recently felt less like studying languages and more like reading book for enjoyment. When I have some spare time, I'll get back to the other books. I am still enjoying them, of course, but they require a lot more hard work, and I will be busy all of this coming week. I also hope to be able to buy myself the follow up book to Låt den rätta komma in, which I have in English already. Maybe I'll try blogging again, sometime? I already blog about my languages very sporadically on my real blog, perhaps I should try blogging in them. That would help boost my number for the Output Challenge. Something to think about. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3854 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 102 of 129 19 June 2015 at 8:46pm | IP Logged |
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I spent the first half of this week visiting with my South African friend. I brought Tintenherz with me for the journey, but while I was there all I read was her version of Stolz und Vorurteil. Thanks to the many, many times that I have read that book in English (and also thanks to the fact that we were watching through the series) I managed to get quite a bit of that read during the three days that I stayed there. She also played a lot of Afrikaans music, and I played my usual game of 'guess' the meaning. I did a little bit better than usual, thanks to the Dutch.
When I got back, I was sick :( and so didn't really get anything done for a couple of days. However, here's a development: I skyped with my boyfriend in Swedish. It was only for a short while before we moved to some weird French/English hybrid, but still. I also read the first chapter of Stolthet och fördom to him today... Okay, okay. I'm obsessed, I know this already. I realised after that that is exactly the sort of thing I should have recorded for the output challenge, but oh well. Too late for that now. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4232 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 103 of 129 19 June 2015 at 9:24pm | IP Logged |
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I find that reading Jane Austen in German while having a good background is silly easy. You probably don't
know all the words, but you don't even have to. Strangely the gaps in vocabulary don't affect the understanding too much. I was quite able to read her German translations last autumn, even taking into account that I was afraid of even trying to read. I don't know whether it's Austin's style or the fact that I adore her books, but it's always awesome to read her stuff in all languages I know :) And no, you're not obsessed. Well, even if you are, it happens to many people ;) 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3854 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 104 of 129 22 June 2015 at 11:50pm | IP Logged |
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A decent background in Austen, I'm sure you mean! My background in German is anything but... But you are right, it doesn't take too much to be able to cling on to comprehension, especially as I do know what's going on so intimately. I really ought to pick it back up...
--- I haven't done all that much for my languages recently, save for a little reading here and there, and messaging my boyfriend. I haven't really been keeping up with the Output challenge, and so my audio output is only like... one hundred words more than last time I checked? Not sure, but it is not much. I want to ratchet up the Swedish a few notches in these next two weeks, as I have booked tickets to go then. I have told my boyfriend that I will try to speak at least some Swedish, and he is arranging for us to go and see a something in Swedish with his mother. So I want to get in lots of preparation. I also want to get slowly back to French. Or quickly. I applied for a job which requires me to 'be fluent in at least one other language'. Now, all of us here know that 'fluent' is a very complicated term, and perhaps I am fluent by the standards of your average Joe of the street. But I am not at a level where I am happy with myself, and I don't know if my level would be satisfactory to anyone wishing to hire me, either. I don't know where I would place myself. The CEFR 'can do' statements don't help much for me, because I can do a lot of the things very high up in the list because I have been required to. But whether or not I can do them well is another question entirely. So I want to focus more on my French, consistently. While watching something like Kaamelott is a fairly easy way to tell myself I am working, I think I need to be more strict with myself. I should try and learn vocabulary relevant to my field and I really need to go back and work through the problems that have accrued and solidified through years of neglect and poor teaching. So, now that I've said it here, I'll probably spend the next two weeks working really hard on German and Dutch, simply because I am so determined to work against my best interests... Okay, perhaps not. But I will try to read more academic French - not because it is the kind of French I think I'll need, but because I think it's fairly close. I have a source which is quite laid back and accessible, but which deals with the kind of vocabulary I might need, and which can point me to more such things. I will also dig out and dust off all those grammar workbooks that I buy/acquire and then ignore. For Swedish... I'll try and get some FSI done. Maybe some shadowing? I have never really tried to shadow anything before, it is far too frustrating. I'll also carry on watching I Mumindalen. The language is incredibly clear and simple: I understand pretty much everything without subtitles, which is nice. But I'll also be using some harder stuff, too. Solsidan, Johan Glans sketches, STV documentaries, so on, so forth. I will also get back to LRing Låt den rätta komma in, and will also try listening without the book. I am also determined to make it to the Swedish Wednesday meetup this week. I don't expect to go to Sweden and suddenly find myself understanding everything and being able to respond in real human sentences. But I want to make things easier to myself, and I think doing these things will make me more confident, if nothing else. So, cross your fingers for me! It's time to really dive in... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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