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German: wünschen | ||
Tags: Meaning of words | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4087 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes  Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 1 of 10 31 May 2014 at 9:07am | IP Logged |
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I wrote the following Satz which was corrected:
Me: Ich wünsche, du wärest an meinem Geburstag hier. Corrected: Ich wünschte mir, du wärest an meinem Geburstag hier. 1. Why is it "wünschte"? I wish that x was here, not "I would wish". If I use "wünschte", does it not mean that in reality I am not wishing? 2. Why is it the reflexive form? When do I use reflexive and when normal? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5604 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 2 of 10 31 May 2014 at 10:37am | IP Logged |
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I think, the normal form for "to wish, hope for a heart's desire or gift " is "sich wünschen":
"Sie wünscht sich ein Kind." "Ich wünsche mir Friede auf Erden." "Ich wünsche mir, daß du aufhörst zu rauchen." "Ich wünsche dir frohe Weihnachten" "Wünschen" without a reflexive is more a mild order: "Sie wünschen?" (asks the waiter, you do not wish your dish, you order it. If he asked "Was wünschen Sie sich", he would sound like Santa Claas) "Ich wünsche, daß du kommst" (You should come, please!) "Ich wünsche, nicht gestört zu werden" (Do not distub me, please!) So, "I wünsche, du bist an meinem Geburtstag hier" sounds more like "I expect you to be here..." 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
 Jiwon Triglot Moderator Korea, South Joined 6441 days ago 1417 posts - 1500 votes Speaks: EnglishC2, Korean*, GermanC1 Studies: Hindi, Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 10 31 May 2014 at 10:53am | IP Logged |
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I also think "wünschen" without reflexive is more of "I want" or "I desire" rather than
"I wish" or "I hope for".. But I'm also confused about "wünschte". Is it Konjunktiv II or just imperfect? I would really appreciate it if any advanced German speakers could clarify this... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Lassus Hexaglot (formerly Josquin) Senior Member Germany Joined 3852 days ago 36 posts - 67 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Italian, Swedish, Latin Studies: Russian, Irish, Japanese | Message 4 of 10 31 May 2014 at 11:06am | IP Logged |
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Yeah, it's Konjunktiv because the whole sentence is about an unreal condition (Irrealis): "I wish you were here" (but, in fact, you aren't). When the thing being wished for is not real, we use the Konjunktiv with "wünschen".
Ich wünschte mir, er wäre pünktlich. Likewise, if the wish is more of a command, you can use the Konditional: Ich würde mir wünschen, dass du mich öfter besuchst. (= Du sollst mich öfter besuchen.) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Jiwon Triglot Moderator Korea, South Joined 6441 days ago 1417 posts - 1500 votes Speaks: EnglishC2, Korean*, GermanC1 Studies: Hindi, Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 10 31 May 2014 at 12:00pm | IP Logged |
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@ Lassus: what if I want to express something I wish for but has not happened yet, and
may happen in the future? For example: "I wish that you are here for my birthday (but I don't know whether you can)" 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5771 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 6 of 10 31 May 2014 at 5:20pm | IP Logged |
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Not Lassus, and I don't want to answer for him (I want to see if our answers are different); but I personally would not use wünschen, but say
"Ich würde mich sehr freuen, wenn du an meinem Geburtstag kommen/da sein könntest." (I assume it won't be easy for you to make the time) It is possible to use wünschen, but I would only use it like Other person: "Was wünschst du dir zu deinem Geburtstag?" Me: "Ich wünsche mir, dass du (zu mir/zu meiner Feier/....) kommst." (Oh god that sounds mushy. I don't say this frequently, okay?) Without such a cue it sounds pretty demanding to me, almost as demanding as saying "Ich will, dass du kommst." 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4087 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 7 of 10 31 May 2014 at 7:05pm | IP Logged |
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0.So wünschen (even wünschen sich) has more of a command connotation than wish
in English? 1. Does this sound better: Ich hoffe, dass du zu meiner Feier kommst. 2. BTW, is this incorrect: Ich wünsche mir, dass du zu meiner Feier kommen wirdst. 3. And finally, instead of Ich wünschte mir, du wärest an meinem Geburstag hier. Is the following better: Ich würde mich sehr freuen, du wärest an meinem Geburstag hier. PS: Thanks everyone for explaining the connotations of wünschen. (It boggles my mind that with so many classes, and at A2 level, that this has not been explained). Edited by Gemuse on 31 May 2014 at 7:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5771 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 8 of 10 31 May 2014 at 11:08pm | IP Logged |
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0.
I wouldn't say so. Nuances translate depending on context, not depending on words. When you say 'ich wünsche mir, dass du' you are clearly expressing your own desire, and you leave the other person to assert their own wishes. That is not a command, but it makes it harder to reject that wish - and when it is rejected, it can make the situation feel awkward. And for some reason I find it even more awkward than plainly saying 'ich will, dass du ...', because that shows that I know the relationship between us is close enough that I can ask for such favours, and the other person will only say no when they can't do it. 'Ich wünsche mir, dass du ...' makes me think of my grandma and my aunts, of people trying to make you do things for them to please them, but who don't seem to have the guts to ask you directly to do that favour because when you say no, it means they can't guilt-trip you into doing it nontheless. That is why I personally wouldn't use that phrase. But maybe it's used differently in other families. 1. It's okay, slightly more direct than my sentence. I can imagine using it with good friends, but then I would probably simply ask: "Kannst du kommen?" because I'd assume everyone involved knows we enjoy doing things together and it's just a question of whether they have time. 2. wirst, and it sounds awkward. It sounds like you've been talking about the planned/ongoing party and then started talking about how your friend is about to move away and you tell them you'll have a big party for your next milestone birthday and they really have to visit you for that party, in a couple of years. 3. Konjunktiv 'ich wünschte mir' means something different from 'ich wünsche mir', and so it can't be replaced by phrases that mean 'ich wünsche mir'. I wouldn't expect an A2 speaker to know all of these nuances. Edited by Bao on 31 May 2014 at 11:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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