|
 |
(Esperanto) | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| vientito Senior Member Canada Joined 6342 days ago 212 posts - 281 votes  | Message 9 of 15 22 July 2007 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | ||
|
korean in fact really has a lot of those onomatopoeic terms. in fact, sometimes it's repeated even though it's as valid being on its own. like 자꾸자꾸
they spice up the language a lot, so to speak. another formula is 거리다 that follows other terms to form a sort of "repeatedly regularly paced action". e.g. 끄덕거리다 which means "nodding in agreement". it's a fun language to study. to me, korean is a language that constantly looks for ways to frame things in blocks (noun clauses) to describe things. note the heavy instances of것 and its derivatives. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kinoko Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6640 days ago 103 posts - 109 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, Japanese, Spanish Studies: German | Message 10 of 15 23 July 2007 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
|
Dear Johnthorea, my comment about Esperanto is absolutely pertinent and related to the discussion as Esperanto was used as the main subject to contribute to the thread. Thus saying that Esperanto is an agglutinative language is wrong if I think it's not even a language. So instead of answering something like "I don't think Esperanto is an agglutinative language" from my point of view it makes much more sense to say "Esperanto is not even a language so it doesn't belong to the discussion" IF I HAPPEN TO THINK SO (for "true language I should have said a "true natural language maybe").
If you don't think so you can disagree but intimating other members to shut up is as rude as foolish on your part. I am not going to deviate from the main subject of the thread discussing an already overdiscussed Esperanto subject here. You forced me to write something completely unrelated already once and for sure I am not doing it again. Please be more considerate when you make comments about other people posts. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| LuckyNomad Groupie Korea, South Joined 6351 days ago 79 posts - 89 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 11 of 15 23 July 2007 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | ||
|
To me(at least for the two agglutinative languages that I know), the languages seem to be concentrated in the verb. Maybe it's because the verb is the thing that gets modified to death, and often times the verb is the only part of the sentence that is spoken. The subjects are always being left out. I end up feeling strange when I say; I or You.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| awake Senior Member United States Joined 6640 days ago 406 posts - 438 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Spanish | Message 12 of 15 23 July 2007 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | ||
First of all, your tone is insulting and uncalled for. You have no authority to demand what I may and may not discuss on this forum. I will bring up anything I desire that I feel is pertinent to the discussion. Esperanto certainly is a real and living language. I would have been happy to discuss/debate the issue with you, but your tone suggests a (possibly irrational) hatred of Esperanto , so I wont waste your time or mine with further argument. As for this topic in particular, Esperanto is not only a language, it is a language with agglutinative characteristics; and the discussion of it is certainly Germane to the topic at hand. I humbly suggest that if you don't like my (and others) discussions of Esperanto, you can ignore them. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kinoko Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6640 days ago 103 posts - 109 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, Japanese, Spanish Studies: German | Message 13 of 15 23 July 2007 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I may see how the tone of my comment may have sound a bit harsh and patronizing. But it was nowhere related to your (or any other forum member) right to express her own ideas. It was related to Esperanto itself, which I don't consider a true language (in my opinions languages are natural languages only, artificial ones are more of a code created to communicate. achieving communication is not enough for such codes to be classified as languages. That's my personal definition of "language". I can yet accept to call them languages, like sign languages for example, still I would never consider them in the same family of natural languages, thus not belonging to the discussion. This has NOTHING to do with hatred or irrational feelings. It's just that: not considering them the same thing as natuaral languages at all).
All this rapresents my opinion and is related to the topic -IN MY OPINION- more than Esperanto does. As I don't consider it a natural language I would never call it an agglutinative one. I can wake up tomorrow an make up a language by myself and make it "agglutinative", still IN MY OPINION, it wouldn't belong to the topic. Why should I stop posting my opinions about esperanto? Why should have I avoided posting in this thread? According to my point of view I did it to keep the thread clear of something not belonging to it. Esperanto. It's different from telling A POSTER not to express comments or ideas. One thing is to attack Esperanto or an idea (and again, it's not attacking it just attacking the fact it belongs to this thread or not) another is attacking members asking not to enetr the discussion, expecially when (in my opinion) those who ask it are those coming up with a topic not belonging to the discussion (esperanto, in my opinion). I apologize with the thread starter for ending up interfering with the original topic. It was not my intention. As expressed above I actually wanted to do the opposite thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6707 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 14 of 15 24 July 2007 at 2:49am | IP Logged | ||
|
I have no qualms about calling Esperanto a language in every sense of the word, in spite of being created artificially. Contrary to for instance Tolkien's Elvish languages it has a living community that have filled out all the lacunas, who have created a literature and who have used the framework provided by Zamenhof in ways that he may not even have anticipated himself. It may even have a small number L1 users (children of eager Esperantists), but probably only in combination with another native language. The golem has become alive, and for a person who might decide to learn it it is entirely irrelevant how it came into being.
I'm more sceptical about the division between flexive, agglutinative and isolating languages, as all the languages I have ever studied combine elements from all three categories. For the moment I'm spending quite a lot of time on Greek and Russian. Both these languages have flexives (that is: 'suffixes' that combine several grammatical functions in each form) and a lot of affixes that have only one form, but with both syntactic and semantical consequences (for instance the passive marker in Russian). And of course they have also got words that have only one form (adverbs). Those two languages are normally cathegorized as hardcore flexives (= lots of morphology), but they have equally strong agglutinative tendencies. Of course the balance in different languages may shift, but postulating that there are three distinct groups of languages is wrong. Instead of distinct language groups there are just some phenomena that occur in different proportions in different languages, but who normally all are represented in a given language. And whatever you call Esperanto it is beyond doubt that it has both flexive, agglutinating and isolating elements, but to make it easier to learn Zamenhof simplified the flexives and curtailed the length, but certainly not the amount of affixes. The result is a language where the affixes are more important and certainly more conspicuous than the flexives, which is why people may see it as agglutinating. Edited by Iversen on 21 August 2007 at 5:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Jiwon Triglot Moderator Korea, South Joined 6440 days ago 1417 posts - 1500 votes Speaks: EnglishC2, Korean*, GermanC1 Studies: Hindi, Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 15 25 July 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||
|
Dear Iversen, according to this wikipedia article, there are approximately 1000 native speakers of Esperanto. I completely agree with many of enthusiastic Esperantists that Esperanto should be given rights and recognition as a proper language. Although I haven't studied the language properly myself (I have only flirted with the grammar a bit), I believe Esperanto is a noble and pacifist movement to bring about harmony and clear communication in this world, and hope to learn it sometime in the future.
Back to the original thread, I agree with the other members that Korean tends to use many onomatopaeic expressions (의성어 for sounds, and 의태어 for actions) that describe slightly different noises and movements. There are also almost seemingly endless ways of altering adjectives for different "shades" of meaning. For example, take the colour red 빨갛다. It is the "normal blue" or "unaltered blue". This can be altered to "새빨갛다", "뻘겋다", "붉다", "발갛다", etc. and they are all used for different purposes and objects. Despite their differences we can see that they are derived from 발갛다 as all of these contain the sounds ㅂ/ㅃ and ㄱ. Whereas in English, you would change the adjectives themselves: crimson, scarlet, red, carmine, etc. I agree that in part it is the aggultinative feature which allows expression of different "shades" through conjugation of adjectives, although I'm not sure about other agglutinative languages. Also, I do believe it is quite a unique feature in certain languages. I heard Irish can express around 20 different shades of green, and as far as I know, Irish isn't agglutinative. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful |
Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
