|
 |
Hebrew Pronunciation | ||
Tags: Hebrew | Pronunciation | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| laban Triglot Groupie Israel Joined 5823 days ago 87 posts - 96 votes  Speaks: Modern Hebrew*, English, Italian Studies: Norwegian, German | Message 9 of 16 03 August 2010 at 1:39am | IP Logged | |||||
|
nogoodnik :
1. I guess what you really mean by Israeli pronunciation is the language seemingly correct form which most people don't use in modern spoken hebrew. right? I still get this vibe though, you think most people use the Sephardic pronunciation as their normal way of speaking? 2. I don't believe any of the jews would try to align anything that gets with their religion with anything that goes with the State of Israel. just my opinion. JW you might think I'm biased, but I would recommend the Ashkenazi version - not so much for the pronunciation, which usually don't make much difference in prayer reading, but more for the singing style. (or maybe it's called chanting - not sure). plus, as you could see in the videos above, Sephardim have their own singing style but they usually skip it and don't look highly on the singing of a prayer, while Ashkenazim cherish singing in their prayers. Edited by laban on 03 August 2010 at 1:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 5074 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 10 of 16 18 January 2011 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Hi, a question. How is ללמוד correctly pronounced, is it LILMOD or LILEMOD?
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 11 of 16 18 January 2011 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
Lilmod. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 5074 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 12 of 16 18 January 2011 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks. Can you explain something? I read in Wikipedia in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shva part 5 that in "non-standart use" the schva retains the "e" pronunciation if it is under י or ל or מ or נ or ר AFTER a prefix. So Wikipedia says it is LILEMOD. In other place (a Hebrew textbook) I read the same as you said, it is LILMOD. I cant understand what is the explanation of this? Is the Wikipedia article wrong? Or what is "non-standart use"? Is there two possible pronunciations, a standart and a non-standart? Please explain, if possible. I cant figure out by myself. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6123 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 13 of 16 18 January 2011 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Another Question: For those who know both Biblical and Modern Hebrew, do you pronounce them the same? I have assumed that it is acceptable to pronounce them the same but someone has made the following comment on one of my readings:
"Why would you read an Ancient Hebrew text in European influenced modern Hebrew? You know the Modern Hebrew R comes from Yiddish/German?" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 14 of 16 19 January 2011 at 12:10am | IP Logged | |||||
I have a hard time figuring it myself, even though I skimmed both the English and the Hebrew version of the Wiki article about it. In any case, it's certainly "lilmod", I've never heard any native or proficient speaker saying it differently; however, I'm pretty much linguistics-illiterate so I don't know how to explain it in the light of the rule that the Wiki article mentions. The only possibly explanation that comes to my mind is that L in infinitive is not "really" a prefix. If you think about it, to be a prefix, למוד would have to be some sort of a stable unit which means something, to which you just add the prefix L to make it infinitive, but the Hebrew infinitive just doesn't work that way - often vav is inserted too (like here, the default form of the word, i.e. the root, is actually למד, lamad) and the root gets modified more than just with a "prefix" L. Or take קרא, kara, and לקרוא, likro - you see that infinitive isn't ONLY about adding some sort of prefix, but that the whole thing somehow changes, vowels change, the writing often changes, etc. When I think of a "real" prefix, I think of L- which is added to signal direction, or M- which is added to signal provenience, but without actually changing the noun. Here, you don't even have a "stable" "noun", you have a verbal root which is "twisted" anyway with a vav. That's the only conjecture I can come up with - that it doesn't work because this sort of L isn't "real" prefix, like the prefixes they bring up as examples on Wikipedia, which are added to a "stable" noun. So I'm sorry, I was probably of no help here, but that's all I can come up with. I learned Hebrew more by ear than by the book, so I don't really know all of those intricacies of phonology, even if those changes come quite naturally to me when I speak. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 15 of 16 19 January 2011 at 12:22am | IP Logged | |||||
It's acceptable to pronounce them the same. There's quite some dispute as to how Biblical Hebrew "should" be pronounced, being that throughout the millenia of Jewish diaspora various groups started pronouncing it in various ways, influenced by the characteristics of the languages of their neighbors they lived around. Thus you have something like three possible R sounds, "softer" and "harder" Ls, some vowels becoming "diphtongized" (e.g. "kodesh" -> "koydesh" with some groups), shifts of stresses on syllabes and a whole bunch of other differences between various groups. The Yemenite pronunciation is the one which kept the most distinctions and is considered the closest to the "original" pronounciation of the language. Still, people still tend to pronounce Biblical Hebrew in the spirit of their own tradition and the younger generations are certainly more accepting of the Israeli Hebrew pronunciation, as it's sometimes taught as a sort of "neutral" pronunciation in schools. Yiddish speakers will usually retain the Ashkenazi pronunciations of Biblical Hebrew, though. There is no pronunciation imperative in any case, you can read it the Israeli way or you can read it in accordance with your tradition. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxval Pentaglot Senior Member Bulgaria maxval.co.nr Joined 5074 days ago 852 posts - 1577 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew | Message 16 of 16 19 January 2011 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Thanks.
1 person has voted this message useful |
If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login. If you are not already registered you must first register
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
