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Some questions on how Korean uses Chinese | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5453 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes  Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 17 of 28 18 August 2010 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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1. What percentage of the population in South and North Korea have been educated to read and write Chinese characters?
In South Korea, students are taught in middle and high school. In North Korea, what I've heard is that they would learn them but wouldn't use them. 2. What is the size of the "canon" of characters they learn? I heard conflicting accounts from 1500 to 1800. 1800 is the number taught in schools. 3. Does that mean they learn some Chinese with the signs, or just learn how to replace certain words from Hangul to Chinese signs? Could you phrase this question in a different way? I'm not quite sure what you are saying. 4. Is it one sign, one reading, as in Mandarin, or is it that, as in Japanese, there are Sino-Korean readings and domestic readings which share the same sign? Just the ones borrowed from Chinese, no native readings for the characters. 5. Is it true that in the North the reading of some Chinese characters varies from thath given in South Korea? Does that mean in some cases the meaning ascribed in Korean vary from the Chinese meanings quite a bit? I'm not sure. 6. What amount of prominence to the Chinese signs have in public life? Shop signs? street signs? billboard advertising? menues in restaurants? In South Korea, I think they are now most frequently used for decoration or distinguishing homophones (but this is rare still). In North Korea, only hangul is used. 7. Can a European person knowing no Korean use a notebook and Chinese signs to make himself understood there among Korean people who don't speak European languages? Probably not, because most people forget them because they aren't quite useful anymore. 8. Is there a web resource that I can go to that lists the canon of Korean used Chinese characters and their readings, meanings and frequencies? Wiktionary is a good place for their meanings and readings, but doesn't tell you the frequencies. Wenlin Software is a good tool for telling the frequencies of Chinese characters in the actual Chinese language, but I would assume the frequency is similar (because Korean, for some reason, borrowed even the most common words like "person" and the entire number system). 9. What is the degree of loaning from Chinese to Korean, and are the loans more similar to Mandarin in Korean or in Japanese? I can't tell you because I haven't studied Japanese. They shouldn't be too different. Edited by chucknorrisman on 18 August 2010 at 2:26am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5788 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 18 of 28 18 August 2010 at 6:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm confused. Looking through hanja dictionaries, many characters are ascribed both a Sino-korean pronunciation and a native Korean reading. For example, 水 (Naver Dic) is listed as being read both 물 and 수. Based on the modern use of hanja in Korea, I can understand that the native Korean pronunciations have become unnecessary and aren't taught or used. Does this mean then that 水 has never been read as 물, even in mixed-script texts, and this reading is ascribed solely to indicate meaning? Would 水(을/를) 마시다 be read as 수를 마시다, or would this sentence be written exclusively in hangul (even, say, 100+ years ago)? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5540 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 19 of 28 18 August 2010 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I wonder if it is a difference in how Naver lists those in their system. Every other Hanja dictionary I've seen (including the book I mentioned earlier in this thread) only lists the Sino-Korean root (or roots for those few with multiple readings) as the "reading" and whatever else is listed (usually the native Korean synonym, if one exists) goes under a field called "name" or "meaning" instead. The big question, I guess, is how those native Korean words were written before Hangul was created? Did native Korean words simply not have a written form until Hangul was introduced, did they use Hanja phonetically (like I've heard some writing methods did for particles), or did they use multiple readings then. Edited by Warp3 on 18 August 2010 at 4:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ericspinelli Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 5788 days ago 249 posts - 493 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Italian | Message 20 of 28 19 August 2010 at 8:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thank you, I did not know that. Naver and Yahoo! are the only hanja dictionaries I have ever looked at.
Like Japanese, it seems that Korean had some intermediate, phonetic writing systems between using classical Chinese and the modern written form. If Wikipedia (Hanja) is to be trusted, "there were some systems developed to use simplified forms of Chinese characters that phonetically transcribe Korean, namely, hyangchal (향찰; 鄕札), gugyeol (구결; 口訣), and idu (이두; 吏讀)." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| delectric Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7186 days ago 608 posts - 733 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: German | Message 21 of 28 19 August 2010 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Every Korean I've met has struggled learning Chinese Characters. They may learn them but
they're just not important to their day to day life so they don't remember them. Use it or lose it. Anyway asking them how many characters they knew before coming to China most would say they could recognise about 100 (Chinese characters). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6773 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 22 of 28 23 August 2010 at 11:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
The Koreans in my university Japanese class (class was about half Korean students, half Canadian) seemed to have a significant advantage when it came to learning and remembering the kanji. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Huliganov Octoglot Senior Member Poland huliganov.tvRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5360 days ago 91 posts - 304 votes Speaks: English*, Polish, French, German, Russian, Spanish, Esperanto, Czech Studies: Romanian, Turkish, Mandarin, Japanese, Hungarian | Message 23 of 28 07 September 2010 at 11:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That would be fantastic, if it isn't too much trouble! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ichiro Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6214 days ago 111 posts - 152 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, French Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Korean, Malay | Message 24 of 28 11 September 2010 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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No probs.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0rchf3 I've added in the Japanese On and Kun readings, the Mandarin reading where I have it, and as a bonus measure the Cantonese reading as well. The Mandarin and Cantonese coverage isn't 100% - only where the character appears in the bottom level of the old-format HSK test. This leaves the Chinese readings blank for many, I'm afraid, covering these is a future project I don't have time for now. A word about the romanisation of the Chinese readings - it's my own system (although based on an idea I got on this forum). For Mandarin, the first tone is in capitals; the second tone is in lower case except for the last letter, which is in capitals; the third tone is all in lower case; and the fourth tone has an initial capital and the rest in lower case, so - 1st Tone - MA 2nd Tone - mA 3rd Tone - ma 4th Tone - Ma I find this easier to look at and remember than putting tone numbers after the syllable, and easier to type than putting in diacritics. The system falls down with syllables which are transliterated into Romaji as a single letter, but then again perfection is the prerogative of the Deity alone. The Cantonese romanisation is similar, except that for low tones I add the extra letter r to the end of the syllable, so - High Tone - MA High Rising - mA Mid Tone - ma Low Falling - Mar Low Rising - mAr Low - mar No particular reason for using r, except that it doesn't otherwise appear in the Cantonese romanisation (Jyutping). I hope this is helpful. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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