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The McGurk Effect | ||
Tags: Gestures/Body Language | Listening | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6016 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 9 of 16 03 November 2010 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | ||
OK, I'll qualify. Without special training, identifying someone as a liar face-to-face is harder than identifying someone as a liar over the phone. The phonetic clues are easier to spot for the average person. According to QI (a very well-researched and reliable TV program by the BBC), in lab tests, the average person has a random chance of identifying a liar face-to-face, but on a telephone, most people guess correctly whether the other person is lying or not. This is not a different discussion because this is essentially the same as the McGurk effect -- the visual channel dominates and causes perceivable clues available in the audio channel to be ignored. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5224 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 10 of 16 03 November 2010 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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There are a number of TV shows both modern and ancient based on trying to identify who is telling 'porkies'
In case you don't already know: Porkies = pork pies = lies. Cockney rhyming slang. It is really difficult to tell by ear that a person is lying over the phone/radio. You really need some kind of technology in there to be reliable but from what I have seen even if you are sending Morse code and you know the message is false your keying prosody changes and that is detectable and the 'lie' is promulgated in speech as a 'tell': a physical manifestation of the mental effort. So does that mean that morse is a language ? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6016 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 11 of 16 03 November 2010 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Morse isn't "a language" -- it's a way of transmitting a language. But veteran telegraphers talk about it as though they didn't have to "decode" it, they just understood it.
I suppose the real question is whether morse code is a way of speaking or a way of writing -- it may be sound, but it encodes graphemes, not phonemes or morphemes, and graphemes are surely the sole reserve of writing...? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5224 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 12 of 16 04 November 2010 at 9:37am | IP Logged | ||
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True, once you've listened for some time you do just transcribe it.
Not true that it encodes graphemes as although the method was used by the Japanese to encode Kana and other alphabets, Morse has also been used to encode 'phrases' dah dah dit dah dah dah dit dah dah dah dit dah (QQQ - with no spaces) came to mean we are under attack from a (currently unknown) force. Also not true that morse is sound can also be transmitted as light which for me was more difficult to 'read' probably because of lack of practice. The question itself was slightly tongue in cheek but thanks for your answer. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6016 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 13 of 16 04 November 2010 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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Not at all, thanks for the question -- it made me stop and really think about the nature of language. My head's still churning through the consequences. "Many a true word said in jest," and all that!
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| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5224 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 14 of 16 04 November 2010 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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No problem. Always happy to pose questions.
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| Splatted Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5147 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 15 of 16 05 November 2010 at 11:16am | IP Logged | ||
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Was anyone else able to hear the "ba" even when it looked like he was saying "va"? I don't mean that it didn't fool me, but I was pretty much able to decide which one I heard.
Edit: Is this a sign of insanity? Deciding my own reality seems a bit dodgy... Edited by Splatted on 05 November 2010 at 11:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| CheeseInsider Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5127 days ago 193 posts - 238 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin* Studies: French, German | Message 16 of 16 23 January 2011 at 2:19am | IP Logged | ||
I got the feeling that they purposely picked a man who couldn't say "ba" properly. Even before he made the motions with his mouth of saying "fa/va" instead of "ba", it sounded like a "bva" or "bfa". In between b and f (or b and v if that's what you heard). It could easily be heard as a "b" or "f/v" without the visual component in my opinion. Edited by CheeseInsider on 23 January 2011 at 2:20am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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