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Non-Mandarin Chinese - more monosyllabic? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5449 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes  Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 1 of 27 11 January 2011 at 2:35am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've noticed that non-Mandarin Chinese languages often have more tones and possible sounds, so I was wondering if they would be more monosyllabic than Mandarin, able to express more meanings with one word instead of two like it often occurs in Mandarin. If anyone has experience, what say you about the monosyllabicity of those languages?
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| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6851 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 2 of 27 11 January 2011 at 3:23am | IP Logged | |||||
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I've read that this is the case, but can't comment on it personally since my experience with other Chinese languages is very limited.
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| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5309 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 3 of 27 11 January 2011 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Cantonese is much, much more monosyllabic than Mandarin. Cantonese has 9 tones. I don't know if the two are related but I supposed so.
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| Cowlegend999 Groupie CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5145 days ago 72 posts - 94 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 4 of 27 11 January 2011 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm learning Cantonese now and it only has 6 (or 7 although the 7th is not being used as much). The 8th and 9th tones are repeats of other tones. That's what I've gathered from my study, every Cantonese course I've ever seen only uses 6 or 7 tones. I know you're a native speaker, but everywhere I've read almost always says what I have outlined 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6851 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 5 of 27 11 January 2011 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Cantonese has 9 tones. Cantonese more or less keeps the 4-tone system of Middle Chinese (平上去入), but expands each category into 陰 and 陽. There are 2 陰入 tones, one clipped and one not. There are three clipped tones, which are the same pitch as other tones. This may make it seem like there are really only 6 tones, but there is more to defining tone in Chinese than simply pitch. This page has a good explanation.
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| Cowlegend999 Groupie CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5145 days ago 72 posts - 94 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 6 of 27 11 January 2011 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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That site basically says there are 6... The 8th and 9th are the same as a standard mid or low tone but are
used when the word ends with p,t, or k. You just don't pronounce the ending letter as in English (like the English word sick you would say sic-ke but in Cantonese you just say sic) then it also mentions the 7th tone (I think it lists it as the first though) the high falling tone is now becoming merged into a high tone. So like I said there are only 6 or 7 tones... Or am I missing something? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6851 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 7 of 27 11 January 2011 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You're missing the fact that there is more to defining tone from a linguistic standpoint than pitch alone. Length also comes into play (thus the differentiation of clipped tones). Any linguist will tell you Cantonese has 9 tones. They are 陰上，陽上，陰平，陽平，陰去，陽去，陰入 ，中入，and 陽入. There's no disagreement on that. You can choose to ignore it and treat it as though it has only 6 tones (and some textbooks do), but the fact remains there are nine tones.
See Ramsey's The Languages of China (relevant bit is on pp 102-103) for more info. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5309 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 8 of 27 11 January 2011 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
You're right about the 3 clipped tones being practically the same as the other ones. But academics, teachers and dictionaries all say 9. Any averge Cantonese Joe would tell you that Cantonese has 9 tones. I don't know why. Probably has to do with the exact definition of "tone". As long as you're aware of there being 2 classification systems and that you understand both, I guess you're fine. Edited by smallwhite on 11 January 2011 at 11:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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