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Mandarin help | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 17 of 25 30 March 2007 at 2:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I don't really agree with this at all. You don't "relearn words you already know" when learning how to write them. You learn how to write them. I started doing reading practice after having a very basic foundation of spoken language (Pimsleur I and II, or thereabouts). I read in my Chinese book that writing should not be commenced until one has a good hold on spoken Mandarin. "Pft!" I said, and started anyway. And I simply found that learning the signs for words I already knew how to say and use was pretty straightforward, but learning the sound and use together with the sign was simply too much. Confronted with a sentance written in characters and pinyin, I could, if I knew all the words in pinyin, quickly check which character was which syllable, examine the makeup of the characters ("Ah, that means ma3, horse, for pronounciation, and that means nü3, woman. So this means mother"). Got it. Just my two cents (and the two cents of the bloke who wrote the excellent book). EDIT: And besides, if you learn words by reading them, you'll likely learn the pronounciation without hearing the word yourself. If you're not already good at your pronounciation, that'll breed a bad one. Edited by Ari on 30 March 2007 at 2:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7041 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 18 of 25 30 March 2007 at 3:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I wrote that post in retrospect. I personally didnt start learning to read/write until almost 1.5 years after beginning oral chinese. I tried earlier but just couldnt grasp/retain it(written lang). At around 1.5 yr mark I started learning almost a hundred by the day and can now follow newspaper articles.
So in an ideal world, I wish I could do that off the bat, but in reality it took my brain almost a year and half to allow the written language in. The difference between now and when I wrote that post you quoted, is that I've accepted that fact instead of "regretting" it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 19 of 25 30 March 2007 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
This line is a little rude. Can you please try to be a little more polite? Also, unless you're an admin, I don't believe you can determine what I perpetuate.
Not for me, or apparently many other learners of Mandarin who find the language not so difficult to speak/listen.
To a certain degree, this is true for every language. Please complete your language list so I can see which other languages you are comparing this to.
Read Vinnie's post again. Does it sound to you like he's asking for native-like fluency?
All languages have idioms. I'll clarify a little. To learn enough to hold a respectable conversation, have a pretty good understanding movies, tv, radio, etc, 1000 hours of active study should do it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 20 of 25 30 March 2007 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
As I said, this is true of every language to a degree. So here is an excellent approach for those that have problems with this. It's called the 10,000 sentence method . In essence, you study whole sentences rather than seperate grammar and vocab. Hope this helps. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Magnum Bilingual Triglot Retired Moderator Pro Member United States Joined 7117 days ago 359 posts - 353 votes Speaks: English*, Serbian*, French Studies: German Personal Language Map | Message 21 of 25 01 May 2007 at 1:57am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Solidsnake,
How much can be learned from Pimsleur I or the cheaper Pimsleur CD set? I have a slight interest in learning just enough Mandarin to order food at a Chinese restaurant. I don't care to be fluent in Mandarin or learn to read. But I think it would be fun to know how to say 400-500 words. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6894 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 25 02 May 2007 at 7:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
If that is your goal, the complete Pimsleur I, II and III, 90 lessons in all, will take you a little more than half way there. You'll be able to say a number of basic sentences with fairly good pronunciation, including ordering beer, tea, mineral water and Peking Duck and a few other things. Just don't expect to understand more than perhaps 5-10% of the Mandarin that is spoken back at you, even in that simpe everyday restaurant context. But beware, the goal you mention was approximately what I had in mind myself when I started out, and once I got going I found it was impossible to stop. You might end up with an addiction for life. Good luck with it all the same ! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7041 days ago 469 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 23 of 25 10 May 2007 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Unless you order fairly standard dishes like 干潮牛河, menu reading can
actually be quite difficult since chefs will often give fancy names with rare characters in them to make dishes sound more "beautiful." You could use the dictionary method and start meticulously learning all common ingredient names, but you would also have to learn how to pronounce them correctly, so at that point you might as well start learning the whole language. Which brings me to-- why the hell would anyone want to learn "just enough to.." of a language?? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Magnum Bilingual Triglot Retired Moderator Pro Member United States Joined 7117 days ago 359 posts - 353 votes Speaks: English*, Serbian*, French Studies: German Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 25 11 May 2007 at 12:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
There is only so much time people have to devote to a language. According to many people Mandarin takes over 2000 hours plus a trip to China to become intermediate level. I don't have 2000 hours to commit to 1 language, and I doubt I will have the time to spend 5 months in China. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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