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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6444 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 73 of 91 19 March 2010 at 3:08am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I quoted wikipedia; I'm not sure how that's a matter of zeal or passion. You were factually wrong about the age of Esperanto. Your comments about 'all it had accomplished' were rather aggressive: pointing out one set of attributes/accomplishments doesn't mean it's the only one. I've posted at some length about Esperanto literature elsewhere on this forum.
Your reaction is, of course, entirely your business. I'm not going to spend more time on this; you are free to look it up yourself or be unimpressed as you will.
Indeed, the Navajo have a rich and fascinating history. That doesn't make the current outlook of the health of the language better, unfortunately. Pointing this out strikes me as a prerequisite for taking action to conserve Navajo, rather than a besmirchment, but each to his own. A history of political repression is sad, but certainly also applies to Esperanto.
We disagree about the impact, but I don't see this discussion going further.
Perhaps I know less about Klingon than you do; I don't know enough about it to say anything about its relevance to the current discussion. As I've said elsewhere, I consider Esperanto akin to languages such as Irish in many ways - it has a rich culture and literature, a limited impact and number of speakers, and so forth. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| abr Groupie Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5485 days ago 40 posts - 62 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English, Spanish | Message 74 of 91 19 March 2010 at 10:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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To lackinglatin
Obviously any conlang need rather heavy promotion, serious lobby and overall pushing in to become anything as… as English. Isn’t it so? Otherwise how long do we have to wait for, for example Esperanto, to break through. To make it happen, some serious effort should be put in – lots of money, time and energy. Now, don’t get me wrong, if somehow by any chance such a worldwide campaign for a new international language starts, I do want it to choose some simple, easy to learn and clear one as its object. But, let me put my thought slightly other way. As you confirm it, everything runs quite good already. Now, just assess amount of energy you will need to achieve any real results manually integrating new world recognized international language. And then look at this by comparison of importance with say amount of deaths by cancer. I mean, it’s so little of a problem if any that we use English if you compare it with almost any other aspect world has to deal with. Yes, English not that perfect, but it works, it works by itself with not so much of a help from outside. And yes it might be really great to have one simple, easy and used all around the world language. But it is almost at the bottom of to-do list, if it’s really in. As for translations, you can’t seriously blame it on the language, or can you? Is it a language fault that translator let himself treat his job with carelessness? No. He will work absolutely the same way with any language no matter how difficult one is. You either do your job well or not – it is strictly a quality of a person. By the way, I ask your permission to cite you in “Ungrateful Natives” and “Have you ever met a language snob?” threads. You will fit so well. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6444 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 75 of 91 19 March 2010 at 10:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Largely true. I don't see Esperanto replacing English in my lifetime, with or without massive governmental intervention. That said, there is a worldwide campaign for it - merely one with many less resources and less prominent backers.
Things run; sometimes they run well, sometimes they don't. Comparing language promotion to preventing cancer is a bit of a false dichotomy. If we're talking about funding, it may or may not be relevant. If we're talking about attention, most people who can learn and teach and promote a language are absolutely useless for curing cancer, unfortunately. People don't do well with no hobbies or fun whatsoever. What's the harm in one such thing being Esperanto? I don't think the world is made worse by people enthusiastically reviving Cornish instead of being bored watching TV - different people become interested and enjoy different things. In this spirit, I'd point to the Raumism branch of Esperanto speakers - one I have some sympathy for, though I don't consider myself a card-carrying member. As for comments about language quality, I have a few thoughts. 1) Making it personal is a big mistake. 2) Some people (and cultures) are more judgmental about it than others. Acknowledging that perfectly comprehensible language usage which contains obvious mistakes causes some people to look down on the speaker/writer is awkward, but not acknowledging this is not entirely honest. 3) Pointing 2 out all the time is an extremely bad idea; I doubt anyone is entirely unaware of it, and it's a way to cause resentment for no gain whatsoever. As for abr's English: I find it to be ok; it doesn't impede communication, and he or she expresses points very clearly. I don't see any reason to critique it unless he or she actively asks for corrections. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| abr Groupie Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5485 days ago 40 posts - 62 votes Speaks: Russian* Studies: English, Spanish | Message 76 of 91 19 March 2010 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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To Volte
Yes, you are right. It is not really legitimate to contrast issues from such a different fields. Sure there is no total overlap of required resources. But, sad to say, it seems to me that most of attention and genuine interest is already put in and to move further you need to make the money flow. And surely it is so if you want speed the whole process up. What I am trying to say is that you need to treat this issue on every level almost as serious as medical or any other of current problems in order to get somewhere. And as a result gaining only something like polish effect in the field already organized in natural way. Edited by abr on 19 March 2010 at 1:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6965 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 77 of 91 19 March 2010 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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A funny aspect of Esperanto is that it was created "to foster universal understanding, solidarity and peace" and wherever in the web a discussion starts about it , it becomes a kind of quarrel .....
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| lackinglatin Triglot Groupie United States randomwritingsetc.blRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5985 days ago 62 posts - 146 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, Modern Hebrew Studies: Spanish | Message 78 of 91 19 March 2010 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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abr, I said all that I said with kindness towards you; I wasn't trying to put you down. Your English is fine, and really good for international/foreigner's English. (I tried to convey that in my last post, actually.) My point is that English isn't fair. I am not judging you as unintelligent for it, but that's because I'm keenly aware of that pitfall--most aren't, and most won't even be consciously aware of their own judgments regarding your intelligence, much less what it is based on.
In Esperanto you would be treated like an equal--and you would be able to command the language as an equal. In English, alas, you will inescapably be treated as a second class citizen. I'm not saying it should be that way, or that it's right, or fair, or you deserve it--heck, I'd give you a medal for learning this language as well as you have; you really should change English from "studies" to speaks, btw--I'm just saying that's the way it is. I'm sorry that my intended tone didn't come through; I sincerely did not intend to insult you, and desired quite the opposite effect. And as Volte said, there is a movement. It's just building momentum. It hasn't arrived yet, it will still take time; but time we have. We are always choosing to build the future, not the present. Dreams are established by the desires of those who wish for the sake of their children as much as for their own sake. And for the sake of your children and mine, I pursue the dream of Esperanto, so that someday the world would be just a bit more friendly, open, and fair, place. As to Esperanto becoming a quarrel... I'm as bewildered as you are as to why Esperanto is such an offensive topic to some people. Hope ("Espero") is an offensive thing, I guess. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| vilas Pentaglot Senior Member Italy Joined 6965 days ago 531 posts - 722 votes Speaks: Spanish, Italian*, English, French, Portuguese | Message 79 of 91 20 March 2010 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Esperanto is good , like any other things that makes some people happy (yoga, soccer, music ,dance etc.) Everybody has a passion, an hobby , and has the right to promote it , knowing that , probably, it will not become the "universal" hobby.
Other people like other things, other sports, other languages.... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| babusxka Newbie Slovakia Joined 5090 days ago 8 posts - 11 votes Speaks: English | Message 80 of 91 25 December 2010 at 2:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Problem with totally artificial languages is that no-one understands them. Exception is language like SLOVIO, which is understood, without learning by some 400 million Slavic speakers. Slovio is simple like Esperanto but useful from day one. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/slovianski http://www.youtube.com/interslavic http://www.youtube.com/slavianstvo LANGUAGE LESSONS: Lesson-1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoqHA9go1Bs Lesson-2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wotq1fTBJeE Lesson-3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkAEVy_MFf4 Lesson-4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzqYVxQmlFo Lesson-5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsc9N-NX1Z4 Lesson-6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-dr56XFaUc Lesson-7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRdeVCA0jkk Lesson-8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORlNmmrZZ4c Lesson-9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ifwcNWb5b8 Lesson-10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UsoFa9AszY SLOVIO FULL DICTIONARY ZIPPED (65 THOUSAND ENTRIES): http://slovio.com/1/0.slovio/d-main.zip SLOVIO NEWS-ARCHIVES: Zvestis 2010: http://www.zvestia.com/index2010.html Zvestis 2009: http://www.zvestia.com/index2009.html Zvestis 2008: http://www.zvestia.com/index2008.html Zvestis 2007: http://www.zvestia.com/index2007.html Zvestis 2006: http://www.zvestia.com/index2006.html Zvestis 2005: http://www.zvestia.com/index2005.html Zvestis 2004: http://www.zvestia.com/index2004.html Zvestis 2003: http://www.zvestia.com/index2003.html By the way, Slovio starts with super-simple grammar, but there is an option, if you want (and have nerves) to learn a more complicated Slavic-like grammar. So it beats any of the Slovio-clones (and there are several dozen of Slovio-clones already) in this area too. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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