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Does international language work? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| wildweathel Newbie United States Joined 5568 days ago 32 posts - 71 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, Japanese | Message 17 of 91 13 January 2010 at 1:50am | IP Logged | ||
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If people are united under one language (no matter how tyrannical or not) there's no need for an IAL.
Esperanto was created for the opposite situation: many groups of people divided by cultural and linguistic languages, say 19th-century Eastern Europe--which incidentally is where it came from. That's the right climate for an IAL to grow in. Esperanto has succeeded beyond other IAL's not because it's the easiest or most neutral or because of its creator's linguistic expertise, but because it was in the right place at the right time. If you have to ask "what is Esperanto good for?" it's not for you. Not yet. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5526 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 18 of 91 13 January 2010 at 2:14am | IP Logged | ||
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The ironic thing about Esperanto is that the two main reasons given here for learning it, promote a universal language and the Esperanto spririt, are mutually exclusive. The reason that an Esperantist abroad may invite you to his home is precisely that the language is the opposite of universal, it's tiny. If Esperanto did become anything near universal, it wouldn't be an exclusive club and people wouldn't invite each other anymore...
So I suppose Esperantists need to take sides, do I want everyone to speak Esperanto, or do I prefer to be in the Esperanto clique? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6475 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 19 of 91 13 January 2010 at 10:53am | IP Logged | ||
There are more reasons for learning Esperanto, but we had that discussion before, so let me just comment on the other thing you said.
This is what's happening, in essence. There is a Finvenkista movement of those looking to promote Esperanto to everyone and there's a Raŭmista movement that believes it would be bad for everybody to speak Esperanto, because they like the current make-up of Esperanto speakers, the common interests, the hospitality, the secret language, the huge amounts of culture being produced in Esperanto... I for one don't think they're mutually exclusive though - I'd love for Esperanto to become a major international language (if only so I don't have to learn Burmese, Lithuanian etc.), but meanwhile I enjoy being part of a bright, open-minded world where I don't have to justify taking an interest in Swahili - or Esperanto ;-) . 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6016 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 20 of 91 13 January 2010 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Like I was saying: Esperantists don't just want an international language, they want Esperanto to be the international language. As wildweathel says, Esperanto is only popular due to lucky timing. There are two questions: 1: Should there be an "international language"? 2: If there was to be an international language, should it be Esperanto? Esperantists tend to conflate this into one question and use arguments for an international language as arguments for Esperanto, because if you ask the second question on its own, there is no credible argument in Esperanto's favour. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5590 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 21 of 91 13 January 2010 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well obviously all members here have language talent in my opinion. If we want a simple to learn, neutral international language, we should EASILY be able to create one if we put our heads together. Zamenhof only had a background of 4-6 languages didn't he? If it was language neutral why did it include a basis of those languages? The members here study entirely different languages, but incorporating them all might override simplicity.
If we wanted a simple international language for all to learn, this forum (in my opinion) is more than capable of creating it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6664 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 22 of 91 13 January 2010 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | ||
A language that would be simple for me to learn would not necessarily be easy for someone else to learn. A native speaker of Russian might find Bulgarian to be very easy to learn, but it would be more of a challenge for me. Even if we put our heads together and devise this language, who will learn it? My guess is that many people who would want to learn a new international language already speak Esperanto. My impression is that people who learn and use Esperanto today tend to be rather idealistic. People who would study a new international auxiliary language with even fewer speakers are probably even more idealistic. Whatever drawbacks that Esperanto may have, it has more speakers and literature than any new language could immediately offer. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5674 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 23 of 91 13 January 2010 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||
As other have mentioned, there have been plenty of attempts by many very capable people to invent something "better" than Esperanto, and none have caught on. If you believe there is potential to break the trend, you could start with The Language Construction Kit Edited by Splog on 13 January 2010 at 6:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| canada38 Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5500 days ago 304 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Japanese | Message 24 of 91 13 January 2010 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I feel as if my post has unintentionally directed this thread toward the discussion of
an Esperanto pros and cons argument. The original question posed by datsunking1 was "I would like to discuss WHY an international (well universal :P) secondary language hasn't caught on?" My apologies. There is no doubt about the success Esperanto has achieved as a constructed language. It has a considerable amount of speakers and recognition by various institutions worldwide. It's speakers can associate themselves together and have an instant friendship solely because of a mutual interest of a language; regardless of their nationality or divergent interests. That is great. Many even claim that a knowledge of Esperanto will help one to learn other languages. This fact motivates me to consider studying the language myself. As I have previously stated in my last post, the majority of English and non-English speakers alike have no use for learning Esperanto, and therefore choose not to. It hasn't caught on because most people choose to learn a language for personal benefit or interest in a particular subject, and not solely to learn a language as a linguist might want to. I highly doubt that Zamenhof's driving purpose was to create a language club [sic] where Haddad, Zhen, Jacques, Ayotunde and Raoul can communicate in a secret language at yearly conferences or to create an alternative to Hostelling International. I am not in any way trying to dissuade anyone from studying or trying to further the Esperanto movement, but my point is this: Esperanto has failed because of its lack of necessity in everyday life. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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