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Spanish "rr" | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5227 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 9 of 32 03 November 2010 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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The mechanics:
There are you upper teeth, and right above them there's your upper gum. Behind your teeth the gum forms a small plateau with a curved edge that then goes up to meet your palate, right? Well, the front part of your tongue (right the part in between the up and down sides of it) should go straight against that curved edge with the sides of your tongue completely blocking air from getting out of your mouth. (Digression: if I put my tongue in position to pronounce an 'l' -should be easy enough for you- I can still breathe through my mouth; if I then 'change my mind' and go to a Spanish 'r' position I just let mi tongue sides relax and extends laterally to block the side gaps, enforcing me to breath through my nose.) And then you loose your tongue tip a bit so it can gently flap down (first) and up (back) as you exhale air (vocal chords are usually vibrating in the Spanish 'r' sound but that is not essential to the mechanics). Edited by mrwarper on 03 November 2010 at 7:52pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Enjoju Newbie United States Joined 5132 days ago 2 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 10 of 32 07 November 2010 at 3:49am | IP Logged | ||
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I wanted to suggest two methods that have been helpful for me that I found on this site:
http://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Your-%22R%22s "Dracula method" Try saying "Dracula" and see if it helps you roll the R by putting a D in front of it. Touch the tip of your tongue to the bottom of your two top front teeth. Then when say "Dracula" and notice the tongue moves loosely but quickly from the tips of your teeth to the roof of your mouth. You can try it with other combinations with r, like 'transylvania' "butter/ladder method" 1) Say the word "butter," then say the word "ladder". 2) Now begin to say the words faster and faster- butter butter butter ladder ladder ladder. As you get faster, you should be able to feel your tongue tip vibrating rapidly against the gum ridge behind your teeth Also, try practicing the trill in different places in the word, and with different vowels. One way to do this is to use vowels and rr like this: ra re ri ro ru arra erre orro urru etc. Another great way to practice is to do tongue twisters slowly, like my personal favorite: "Erre con erre cigarro. Erre con erre barril. Rápido corren los carros sobre los rieles del ferrocarril". Practice at different intervals during the day, I can't tell you how often I ended up trilling (or trying to) jeje. Good luck, and remember it can be done! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| medchess Diglot Newbie United States Joined 6188 days ago 16 posts - 16 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 11 of 32 13 December 2010 at 1:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for all the ideas everyone. It was helpful understanding where the tongue is supposed to go (the tip of it right behind the upper front teeth toward the front of the mouth). I decided to try this tongue twister in the last post starting once/day and maybe will increase it to a couple times a day. Likely my mind will be working on it even if I am not and I will get it.
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| NYC_Trini_Span Diglot Groupie United States Joined 7224 days ago 60 posts - 66 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 12 of 32 25 December 2010 at 10:02am | IP Logged | ||
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Once a day is not enough!
I used the word ladder and the phrase " el gato es mio pero el perro no es mio" this was in 2005 and from lesson 3 of LSLC. I liked the practice of the two r types back to back (pero el perro) I made a promise to not pass the lesson til I could do it so I was on lesson 3 and then 4 for 2 weeks to a month before it trilled. Fast forward to now and its a skill I realize that needs time. I can achieve it with barely any air pushing through , versus in the beginning it was more air and kind of harsh even. So try saying it 30 times a day (10 in the morn, noon and night) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| NYC_Trini_Span Diglot Groupie United States Joined 7224 days ago 60 posts - 66 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 13 of 32 25 December 2010 at 10:07am | IP Logged | ||
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I should add that certain letter combinations are harder for English speakers like a rolled R right after or attached to a word ending in L:
Al reve's = reverse En su Alrededor = in his/her surroundings Etc 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5227 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 14 of 32 25 December 2010 at 11:00am | IP Logged | ||
BTW, 'a su alrededor' sounds much better. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 6051 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 15 of 32 26 December 2010 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't understand how all of these tongue twisters actually help people. Saying butter/ladder I million times and then some how the tongue starts rolling? Rolling your tongue involves totally new actions, not making the same one's faster. When I saw "butter" and "ladder" my tongue does nothing like the action of rolling your tongue, which involves
BLOWING AIR to make your tongue vibrate or flap. This is the KEY. You have to blow air across your tongue. The control of the air, how hard and much, as well as the tongue being in just the right spot behind your upper teeth is the key. People who can do this this naturally apparently don't realize this because it is so natural for them, so they give out these bizarre tips. I tried to make RR at least a 2000 times before I figured this out on my own. Edited by irrationale on 26 December 2010 at 5:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5663 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 16 of 32 26 December 2010 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am also having difficulties with this sound. I've reached the point where I can now get the tip of my tongue to vibrate but the sound I'm producing does not sound as clear as the sound samples I'm listening to; it's almost like I'm making an inter-dental fricative simultaneously. Does anyone else experience this? How exactly does one avoid co-articulating these two sounds?
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